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Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

modular.com

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Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#191

Post by xigoi »

pineapple_sauce wrote: post #136
drBonkers wrote: post #128

Why would I use this over Nim?

From what I can tell: 1. They have a REPL and Jupyter integration 2. They're planning to do C and C++ interop. This is achievable in Nim but it is a pain, i.e. there is not easy way to import/include a C header in Nim, e.g. nothing as straight-forward as @cImport("cheader.h") in Zig or #include "cheader.h" in C++; one must go through c2nim or a third-party library (1) cannot be achieved without a custom linker or usi…

> there is not easy way to import/include a C header in Nim

I prefer writing an explicit wrapper anyway. It allows me to rename symbols to a more idiomatic name.

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#194

Post by StefanWestfal »

chrislattner wrote: post #20

There are a bunch of questions about Julia, so I'll do my best to give a short answer to a very long and complicated topic. Up front, Julia is a wonderful language and a wonderful community, I am a super fan. That said, Mojo is a completely different thing. It is aligned with the Python community to solve specific problems outlined here: https://docs.modular.com/mojo/why-mojo.html Mojo also has a bunch of technical a…

A lot of companies build web api's around their ML/AI code and data pipelines in Python, is Mojo suited for these task as well or is it specialized for numerical/AI/ML tasked?

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#195

Post by teleforce »

chrislattner wrote: post #20

There are a bunch of questions about Julia, so I'll do my best to give a short answer to a very long and complicated topic. Up front, Julia is a wonderful language and a wonderful community, I am a super fan. That said, Mojo is a completely different thing. It is aligned with the Python community to solve specific problems outlined here: https://docs.modular.com/mojo/why-mojo.html Mojo also has a bunch of technical a…

Very strange to have no GC as a innovative feature for a modern programming language. Personally I think Dlang get it right by making GC as a default and provide no GC as an optional feature.

As a comparison, auto industry is moving toward fully automatic transmission especially for the EV but software industry is still undicided and seems cannot even come up with a robust GC mechanism that is on par with no GC in term of performance.

With no GC, interpreted programming language e.g. Python will most probably being used well into the future alongside Mojo/C++/Rust because majority of AI/data science/machine learning programmers cannot even bother to touch the underlying codes for the fear of programming complexity of these no GC languages.

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#196

Post by bsaul »

chrislattner wrote: post #20

There are a bunch of questions about Julia, so I'll do my best to give a short answer to a very long and complicated topic. Up front, Julia is a wonderful language and a wonderful community, I am a super fan. That said, Mojo is a completely different thing. It is aligned with the Python community to solve specific problems outlined here: https://docs.modular.com/mojo/why-mojo.html Mojo also has a bunch of technical a…

Just wanted to share how much of fan of your work i am. I wish you could gave stayed in the Swift ecosystem. i feel like the language has lost its track since you left.

Looking forward to see where this new adventure will lead, and congratulations !

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#197

Post by revelio »

notfed wrote: post #188
revelio wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's the business model then?

Do programming languages need business models?

One that pays expensive senior full time SWEs to build it does, yes. Every programming language uses one of two models:

1. Patronage

2. Business

Patronage is the Ruby/Python/Linux "one guy + volunteers" model where a few of the devs look for companies to pay them to do it as a full or side project basically for marketing purposes or because that company can afford to subsidize their tools. This clearly isn't that.

A VC backed startup making an open source language is neither patronage nor a business, unless you take the hard-cynic position of saying the investors have been tricked into being patrons.

I'm assuming they've got some sort of cloud related ideas for monetization, but it's tough.

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#198

Post by freilanzer »

throwawaymaths wrote: post #95
Sukera wrote: post #48

Are you afraid that you're going to "inherit" the issues the python ecosystem has through your goal of full compatibility? Or is Mojo more like Numba, in that only parts of python will actually be supported for full acceleration? At least your docs[1] seem to say so.. -- [1]: https://docs.modular.com/mojo/why-mojo.html#intentional-diff...

Agreed. I think this effort is completely missing the real pain points that ML suffers from. While python the language is easy, and in many ways great for its original purpose as a teaching language, I'll take note of the few ways that Python ML suffers: - pip hell. Really, having globally installed dependencies was great for the 90s and is terrible now that disk space is more or less a non-issue relative to dependen…

> original purpose as a teaching language

The original purpose was to act as a glue language for C++.

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#199

Post by freilanzer »

qumpis wrote: post #141
throwawaymaths wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I think this effort is completely missing the real pain points that ML suffers from. While python the language is easy, and in many ways great for its original purpose as a teaching language, I'll take note of the few ways that Python ML suffers: - pip hell. Really, having globally installed dependencies was great for the 90s and is terrible now that disk space is more or less a non-issue relative to dependen…

Poetry and pipenv seem to be quite popular among ML researchers, especially those who care about reproducibility.

I use pyenv and poetry.

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#200

Post by freilanzer »

pjmlp wrote: post #187
nojonestownpls wrote: post #112

This is the final nail in the coffin for "Julia as a replacement for Python" in my eyes. Maybe I'm very late to that conclusion, maybe the writing's been on the wall for a while, but I still held out hope that Julia could be at least a parallel peer to Python sharing the market. But now, it seems almost certain that Julia will end up a possible replacement-for-Matlab niche language, unknown and unused by most outside…

Julia is doing alright, https://juliahub.com/case-studies/

Alright most likely isn't going to cut it when Python gets even more entrenched.
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