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NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

arstechnica.com

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Re: NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

#361

Post by sgtnoodle »

version_five wrote: post #98
politelemon wrote: post #3

This article throws up many flags for me, not necessarily red, but of a worrying color. It first celebrates surveillance devices as a net positive and hand-waves away its problems. But most importantly, it is awfully shortsighted to allow a single company to entrench itself further into societal transactions. However, hearing it is inconvenient, so I am often dismissed for saying so. > They're made by Apple, which me…

All that stupidity aside, how are AirTags actually supposed to help, even if we all had an iPhone and were happy to live under apple's benevolent rule? Most cars have a gps tracker now anyway. Mine was stolen last year, during the night. I was told it would have been put into a shipping container within an hour, where it wouldn't be accessible to radio waves anyway. Maybe they work for casual joyriding. At least wher…

Even if your car is gone, it could be a fun consolation to get a tracker ping from a far away, exotic land.

Re: NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

#362

Post by HWR_14 »

kyboren wrote: post #292
HWR_14 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to buy an iPhone. Apple publishes a free app in the Google Play Store[1]. You do have to run Apple software, but it'd be a bit much to expect them to make things work with no code at all. [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.apple.trac...

I don't want to carry any phone, among other reasons because I do not want to be tracked 24/7. Now Apple has made it trivial for anyone to buy persistent, highly accurate dystopian stalker gear that could easily be surreptitiously placed on my person or vehicle. Having no phone, I would have no idea. The AirTag tracking system escalates the technological arms race and dramatically expands my threat model. All I want…

First, you can totally carry a phone in airplane mode or a tablet without cellular capabilities. Or you can scan with a tablet from a known location (e.g. the office) and regularly do so.

Second, the threat model isn't new. Tiles have had the same capability for a long time. GPS trackers that use cellular to report your location are about as big as an AirTag (although more expensive).

But finally, this is something a lot of people want to have. We need laws to punish their misuse, but ultimately banning them would impact other people's rights.

Re: NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

#363

Post by neom »

nradov wrote: post #346
crhulls wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are a public company with an audit and risk committee, multiple in-house lawyers, and external counsel. This was heavily discussed. Perhaps a court would limit the fine, but liquidated damages are a commonly used concept, and I don't think most people will tempt fate. Aggressive stalkers will buy dedicated GPS devices - this is a real roadblock.

I don't believe you. I think you're either lying, or misunderstood what your external counsel told you. If you want us to take your claim seriously then post copies of their opinion letters.

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

#364

Post by UncleEntity »

Animats wrote: post #112

LoJack used to be the go-to company for this. No more. Classic LoJack had good privacy. It's a box hidden somewhere in the car, with a connection to vehicle power. It has a transmitter, but normally doesn't transmit. If your car is stolen, you report this to the police, which report it to LoJack. That broadcasts an ID over a subcarrier of some local FM broadcast station. The receiver in the Lojack unit listens for th…

> If your car is stolen, you report this to the police, which report it to LoJack.

By which time it is already chopped up for parts or, in the case of places like Phoenix, is already in Mexico.

I used to have a roommate who grew up in NYC, had a somewhat dubious past and was talking about LoJack one day. He claimed it doesn’t work well enough in dense urban areas to get a precise location fix to actually impede theft. IIRC they would have enough time to disable it as long as they stayed around tall buildings. Something like they would park the car in an alley between buildings and find the LoJack before doing whatever with the car.

I’ve known a few youthful car thieves over the years with some interesting stories.

Re: NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

#365

Post by CSMastermind »

closeparen wrote: post #348
7speter wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole thing about the mayor and NYPD telling everyone who watches or listens to the news to buy a 30 dollar gps patch that someone can put under some car carpeting anywhere in said car should be enough to discourage most car thieves with 2 or more active brain cells, but hey, I'm an idealist.

Only if the police were actually interested in seeing the location of your stolen property & going there to look for it, which is not a typical experience when reporting a theft to an urban police department.

For what it's worth my car was stolen last year and the Orlando police response was swift, professional, and effective.

I called in with my report, dispatch quickly verified that the car had not been towed then asked me some preemptive questions to make sure it really was stolen (no one else had keys to it, etc).

My car a tracker that the thieves disabled but I sent the dispatcher the last known flair location before the tracker shut off.

The police sent one officer to get my statement while three other cars of officers canvassed the area around the the flair location building by building until they found the car inside of a gated community.

Then they took me to it to confirm it was mine, dusted everything for fingerprints, and gave me a business card with the officer's name, department, etc. and a case number I could use to for reference with insurance or to follow up and see if they managed to catch the people who stole it.

The entire process only took about an hour and the police went above and beyond. I'll forever be grateful for their efforts.

Re: NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

#367

Post by imp0cat »

sgtnoodle wrote: post #319
linooma_ wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> No need to buy Apple > you're definitely not seeing genuine AirTags 5 for $13 I didn't see anything in the comment which suggested they were. It is specifically points out there are devices not produced by Apple. Third parties can create compatible devices: https://developer.apple.com/find-my/

The off-brand ones lack a sufficiently large network to be used for tracking. They're only good for finding stuff in range of your own phone.

What do you mean? They can use the same network of Apple devices.

Re: NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

#368

Post by CamperBob2 »

sgtnoodle wrote: post #354
CamperBob2 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many car thieves carry iPhones? That Venn diagram will have an overlapping area, but I'll bet it's not that big.

Why wouldn't most car thieves have iPhones?

Because most people who aren't car thieves don't.

Re: NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

#369

Post by UncleEntity »

7speter wrote: post #163
sgustard wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume the "LoJack Inside" window sticker is the main technology you really want? Suggest the thief go steal a different car?

The whole thing about the mayor and NYPD telling everyone who watches or listens to the news to buy a 30 dollar gps patch that someone can put under some car carpeting anywhere in said car should be enough to discourage most car thieves with 2 or more active brain cells, but hey, I'm an idealist.

> …should be enough to discourage most car thieves with 2 or more active brain cells, but hey, I'm an idealist.

With all the dubious “stalkers put an airtag on my car” stories from a while ago they are also trivial to find and disable.

Apple isn’t stupid, they are good for finding your lost keys but not for finding your lost girlfriend.

Re: NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

#370

Post by matthewdgreen »

devmor wrote: post #335
matthewdgreen wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advantage of AirTags is the large phone tracking network: every recent iPhone defaults to tracking them. That's hundreds of millions of devices globally, with probably even more density in the US. The main competitors (Tile and Samsung) have much smaller networks. I'm not sure what network you'd get with generic "Bluetooth Tracker" tags: technically it could be Apple but I can't find any evidence for such product…

I am convinced you are not reading the things you reply to. That person specifically noted and gave you a reference to how those 3rd party tags use Apple's own network.

> That person specifically noted and gave you a reference to how those 3rd party tags use Apple's own network.

What is the clear reference? One person said they searched GPS tracker tags on Amazon and the other gave a link to Apple’s licensing program which in turn links to NDAs and contractual agreements as well a multi-step design and approval process. There seem to be some knock-offs claiming they work with Find My, but there’s all sorts of weird counterfeit crap on Amazon. Do you have links to a product that’s actually licensed/supported by Apple (ie works and will keep working), because that’s what surprised me.

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