Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 439 posts

Re: NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

#341

Post by lstamour »

interpol_p wrote: post #245
izzydata wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it even true? It seems hard to believe Apple doesn't spy on people or sell information to advertisers.

As far as I am aware, they do not sell information to advertisers. Doing so would be a bad business move for them, anyway (ditching long term brand trust for short term profit?) On AirTag location privacy, from Apple's site [1]: > Only you can see where your AirTag is. Your location data and history are never stored on the AirTag itself. Devices that relay the location of your AirTag also stay anonymous, and that loc…

Edit: I’m debating deleting this post. It doesn’t have any references to back it up, and I just realized that if the tracking network encrypts the location with the public key such that the private key is required to decrypt the location, it is indeed possible for Apple to not know where devices are because the decryption of the location might be done on your device rather than on Apple’s servers, if they wanted to.

Original post follows: I haven’t read any white papers on how this works, but I’m going to call “slight BS” anyway. Technically, Apple knows the location of the AirTag, that’s how their network works. The payload of airtag data might be encrypted, but Apple also keeps the keys for your AirTags so that you don’t have to associate new AirTags with each Apple device you want to use Find My on. While I don’t doubt that Apple strictly reduces what information they log or identify about AirTags to literally the bare minimum that keeps the service running, it’s a bit ingenuous to suggest Apple doesn’t know. What I mean by this is Apple isn’t lying when they say they don’t know the location of your AirTag (until you use their app to look for it) but it is true they know the location of all AirTags synced to their network, they just don’t know which one is yours until you go looking for it. Encryption probably plays a role in that asymmetric encryption would allow Apple to not know any AirTag details until your devices provide the decryption key. A handshake could be involved too so that your device can’t decrypt the location of the tag without proving they own the associated encryption key. But presumably Apple has a way of issuing or remotely authorizing against such keys. It is likely the case that your password for your phone protects Apple from gaining access to the keys thus justifying the position that Apple doesn’t have access because they don’t have your keys. Apple would have to act maliciously with their software into order to break this system, and it’s not worth it for them to do so. I’m not saying they’re lying but they are simplifying things a bit.

Re: NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

#342

Post by jandrese »

markdown wrote: post #256
Animats wrote: post #112

LoJack used to be the go-to company for this. No more. Classic LoJack had good privacy. It's a box hidden somewhere in the car, with a connection to vehicle power. It has a transmitter, but normally doesn't transmit. If your car is stolen, you report this to the police, which report it to LoJack. That broadcasts an ID over a subcarrier of some local FM broadcast station. The receiver in the Lojack unit listens for th…

Wow, the police allowed their entire fleet of vehicles to be used by a private company? And taxpayers considered this ok and not blatant corruption? Capitalism, you scary.

This seems more like a company was providing a service to the cops. I assume the police departments had to buy the lojack receivers, but after that it probably doesn't cost them anything. No different than the cops buying any product or service that helps them do their job.

Re: NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

#343

Post by jandrese »

senkora wrote: post #280
bhaney wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The notification doesn't fire until you've been moving along with the tag for a while, so the vehicle has already been stolen by the time the thieves are aware there's an AirTag present. I guess it might encourage them to dump the vehicle somewhere and abandon it, and you can then go pick it up using the AirTag's last known location. Doesn't really prevent the initial theft, but improves your chances for recovering t…

In my experience they just rip the AirTag off once it notifies them and then continue on their merry way.

Seems like you would want to install it somewhere that is difficult to reach. Behind the dashboard for example, something that requires some work to access. Maybe wrapped in a bit of sound deadening material to make it harder to locate.

Re: NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

#344

Post by sgtnoodle »

crhulls wrote: post #279
reaperducer wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

stringent penalties for misuse, including a large fine. How exactly does a non-government entity impose a fine?

It’s a terms of service agreement. We would have to sue

Doesn't that seem like an unrealistic solution? If you actually start suing customers over terms of service, you're going to rapidly alienate your customer base.

As a generally reasonable person, I have no interest in submitting anything more official than a valid credit card number to any company for lack of any legal need.

It seems like it would be wise to avoid any pretense if you want to start selling covert tracking as a premium feature. Either do it or don't, but don't try to offload the moral implications onto your customers by "policing" them.

Re: NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

#345

Post by CamperBob2 »

bhaney wrote: post #262
scrapcode wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't the notification that an AirTag is located somewhere in the vehicle they're thinking of stealing deter them from stealing it?

The notification doesn't fire until you've been moving along with the tag for a while, so the vehicle has already been stolen by the time the thieves are aware there's an AirTag present. I guess it might encourage them to dump the vehicle somewhere and abandon it, and you can then go pick it up using the AirTag's last known location. Doesn't really prevent the initial theft, but improves your chances for recovering t…

How many car thieves carry iPhones? That Venn diagram will have an overlapping area, but I'll bet it's not that big.

Re: NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

#346

Post by nradov »

crhulls wrote: post #313
nradov wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a stalker, but that agreement is almost certainly unenforceable in civil court. It violates the basic principles of consideration and equity. There is extensive case law on those areas, which you might want to look into before wasting people's time making empty threats and bullshiting about subjects you clearly don't understand.

We are a public company with an audit and risk committee, multiple in-house lawyers, and external counsel. This was heavily discussed. Perhaps a court would limit the fine, but liquidated damages are a commonly used concept, and I don't think most people will tempt fate. Aggressive stalkers will buy dedicated GPS devices - this is a real roadblock.

I don't believe you. I think you're either lying, or misunderstood what your external counsel told you. If you want us to take your claim seriously then post copies of their opinion letters.

Re: NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

#347

Post by sidewndr46 »

crhulls wrote: post #276
schwartzworld wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a bunch of Tiles, and after a year the non-replaceable batteries failed and I got an offer to replace them at 15% off. Talk about garbage. Your product isn't good for anything if it just stops working after a year and needs a full replacement.

We have updated all models to have either replaceable batteries or a 3-year life. Given how beaten up devices on things like keys get we are getting very good feedback on the 3 year models. We are also giving away free tiles to paid Life360 members, which is probably not as relevant to the hacker news crowd but we do have over 20% of US families using our service. We think tiles should be free with membership, includ…

So you claim 20% of US families, or about 25 million use your service.

Your website is showing me "502 Bad Gateway" right now.

Re: NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

#348

Post by closeparen »

7speter wrote: post #163
sgustard wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume the "LoJack Inside" window sticker is the main technology you really want? Suggest the thief go steal a different car?

The whole thing about the mayor and NYPD telling everyone who watches or listens to the news to buy a 30 dollar gps patch that someone can put under some car carpeting anywhere in said car should be enough to discourage most car thieves with 2 or more active brain cells, but hey, I'm an idealist.

Only if the police were actually interested in seeing the location of your stolen property & going there to look for it, which is not a typical experience when reporting a theft to an urban police department.

Re: NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

#349

Post by autoexec »

version_five wrote: post #98
politelemon wrote: post #3

This article throws up many flags for me, not necessarily red, but of a worrying color. It first celebrates surveillance devices as a net positive and hand-waves away its problems. But most importantly, it is awfully shortsighted to allow a single company to entrench itself further into societal transactions. However, hearing it is inconvenient, so I am often dismissed for saying so. > They're made by Apple, which me…

All that stupidity aside, how are AirTags actually supposed to help, even if we all had an iPhone and were happy to live under apple's benevolent rule? Most cars have a gps tracker now anyway. Mine was stolen last year, during the night. I was told it would have been put into a shipping container within an hour, where it wouldn't be accessible to radio waves anyway. Maybe they work for casual joyriding. At least wher…

> All that stupidity aside, how are AirTags actually supposed to help, even if we all had an iPhone and were happy to live under apple's benevolent rule? Most cars have a gps tracker now anyway.

Yeah, I figured the main problem was police not wanting to do anything about theft even when you had a GPS location and videos of the people stealing your stuff. I've seen lots of stories about people who knew exactly where their lost phone/laptop/car/whatever is but police were totally uninterested in recovering the items.

Re: NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car thefts

#350

Post by bobmaxup »

7speter wrote: post #167
surgical_fire wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But as someone who spent years on iPhone, then switched fully to Android for 5 devices across 4 years Perhaps you don't know how to pick phones? My last Android device lasted 4 years (in fact it is still going strong after I installed DivestOS, became my backup phone), and my new device will probably last a long time too. Each for a fraction of the price charged by Apple.

You know you can get an Iphone SE for 150 dollars, right?

It is $430 on Apple's website:

https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se/4.7-inch-dis...

Post reply on HN