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PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

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Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#901

Post by NeutralCrane »

biftek wrote: post #545
throwaw12 wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about: dissolving all labor unions, schools and governments? You do parenting and education yourself, protect yourself and your kids from any kind of harm outside. If you can't do it, just admit you are incompetent and don't force consequences of paying taxes on me

what point are you actually trying to make? just because schools and the "government" exist doesn't free you from educating or taking care of your kid outside of those contexts. learn to be a parent

I believe they are facetiously pointing out the logical fallacy the original commenter was making by claiming that the law unjustly punished everybody to protect poor parents. But that same logical stretch could apply to any and all laws, thereby making all laws unjust in the same way. While that line of thinking may appeal to a anarchic-libertarian extremist minority, the overwhelming majority of people see this as stupid.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#902

Post by tourmalinetaco »

Jach wrote: post #720
tristor wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's wrong with these people? It's Utah. Utah, for all the ways that actually matter, is effectively a theocracy operated by an ultra-conservative religious minority. Utah is about as similar to the rest of the United States as the rest of the United States is similar to the Middle East.

This reads like an over-the-top warning that's really meant to try and keep more people (especially Californians) from moving in.

It’s accurate, but if it has the side effect of scaring Californians then no one is complaining.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#903

Post by dang »

George83728 wrote: post #636
plokiju wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weren’t you the one just making an appeal to history and tradition above?

[flagged]

Could you please stick to the site guidelines when posting here? You've already broken them more than once. The comment here is a particularly clear-cut case, since the guidelines include "When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. 'That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3' can be shortened to '1 + 1 is 2, not 3."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#904

Post by friend_and_foe »

sophacles wrote: post #423
padobson wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a mechanism for empowering a polity to protect minors from certain things the polity deems they're not ready for that doesn't rely on arbitrary rules?

How about: If you don't want your kids to see it, that's on you. Either accept that you are a shitty parent who can't raise children to your satisfaction, or get better at parenting. Don't force consequences on me just because you are incompetent.

"If you don't want your kids buying cigarettes that's on you."

If we want to live in an environment where children have any degree of autonomy, that means delegating some aspects related to restricting age appropriate behaviors to the state. Now, I'm not a fan of government mandated age restriction on websites, but your point is obviously not well thought out.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#905

Post by bart_spoon »

HaZeust wrote: post #795
4gotunameagain wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything that can hijack the dopaminergic system should not be allowed to kids. Gambling, tiktok & smartphones in general, porn, drugs etc. We used to have shame as a societal mechanism to deal with these issues. It was shameful to be an alcoholic, which was how alcoholism was kept in check. The same way it was shameful in ancient Greece to surrender to your carnal urges. Shame is disappearing. Our societies are goin…

Places with robust systems for shame and conformation to its populace - particularly religious nations - are less civilized and developed than their "shameless" national counterparts. This isn't the only variable, and it's clearly not the determining factor. Push an agenda elsewhere.

Japan would like a word

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#906

Post by dragonwriter »

PathOfEclipse wrote: post #778
tristor wrote: post #776

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Theocracies can be elected. > No, they can't Why not? The vast majority of people in Utah are Mormon, and people in high positions within the LDS Church often go into state and local politics and elected, precisely because they will enact policies that align with the moral tenets of the Mormon religion...

> people in high positions within the LDS Church often go into state and local politics and elect Yep. That's called a democracy, or a Republic, depending on which word you prefer. It's literally nothing like a Theocracy, in practice or in theory. You should probably study what an actual theocracy is: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/theocracy...

Theocracies can be republics (basically, any non-monarchic system is a republic), and can have elected representatives.

The Islamic Republic of Iran, for instance, meets both.

Now, the assertion that Utah is effectively a theocracy rests on the claim that the leadership of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints asserts informal power loosely analogous to that held formally by, say, the Guardian Council in Iran. I’m nit saying that that’s true. But that it is formally a republic with democratic election of representatives isn’t even slightly incompatible with it being an informal theocracy, you can even be a formal theocracy with those features.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#907

Post by jasmer »

anigbrowl wrote: post #635
brightball wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s such a strange dichotomy in these conversations. 1. Porn shouldn’t be available to kids and it’s on the vendors legally to ensure that. 2. Porn should be unrestricted, it’s up to parents to do something about it. What I can’t understand is if the people in camp 2 are so unashamed of the porn advocacy then why is age verification such a big deal? If it’s not a big deal then verifying your age shouldn’t phase y…

2. I don't want to live in a permission society where I have to submit to inspection to do anything. If it’s not a big deal then verifying your age shouldn’t phase you anymore than verifying your age to buy alcohol. I don't like that either and some years ago I stopped providing my ID on request. Corporate vendors (eg supermarkets) still insist on asking my birthdate. I'm in my 50s. Paternalistic attitudes infantiliz…

"Paternalistic attitudes infantilize society"

It's not 'paternalistic' to require people to pass a driving exam, or gasp, do a safety test to buy a gun.

This pseudo-liberatrian crap is the most toxic part of HN, and frankly what is 'infantile'.

I have a number of nephews and nieces now and completely emphasize with my brothers and sisters who don't want to allow you and others to infect their kids with your supposed 'ideals' willy nilly - it's a cesspool out there.

At minimum parents should have choice.

We can be smart about it and provide anonymous tokens to validate age, it's not even hard, we just have to think about it, it should have happened long ago.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#908

Post by jasmer »

gnicholas wrote: post #716
brightball wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s such a strange dichotomy in these conversations. 1. Porn shouldn’t be available to kids and it’s on the vendors legally to ensure that. 2. Porn should be unrestricted, it’s up to parents to do something about it. What I can’t understand is if the people in camp 2 are so unashamed of the porn advocacy then why is age verification such a big deal? If it’s not a big deal then verifying your age shouldn’t phase y…

> If it’s not a big deal then verifying your age shouldn’t phase you anymore than verifying your age to buy alcohol. If the cashier asks for your ID when you buy a six-pack, that's completely ephemeral, with no record created. If they swipe your ID (I think this happens sometimes), that creates a record, but it's not clear if it stores personal info or just verifies that it's a valid ID with appropriate birthdate. If…

"there's no way to do so ephemerally, " - there are ways people can be issued anonymous tokens, 3rd party verifications, regs against recording the data with strong regulatory authority.

Frankly, it's not even that hard you could come up with 3 'good ways' just by thinking about it a tiny bit, that would be less intrusive than showing your ID at a bar.

Trade this for getting the drinking age lowered to 18 and we win.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#909

Post by bart_spoon »

xdennis wrote: post #445
afavour wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ll get some angry responses to this but I think it’s very worthwhile to say. Yes , ID verification in order to watch pornography is deeply Orwellian and terrifying (which is the aspect places like HN tend to focus on) but the bulk of the public support for these measures isn’t because people want government surveillance, it’s because they want to look out for children. Are they misguided? Perhaps. But you can’t w…

> it’s because they want to look out for children The issue is that it's _their_ job to look out for their children. We don't force all beds to have "walls", and give adults the keys to lower them if they show proof of age. Parents are supposed to buy _cribs_ for their children.

> The issue is that it's _their_ job to look out for their children.

Perhaps, but society seems to be increasingly creating hostile environments for parents and their children. Immediate and constant access to unlimited pornography is the tip of the iceberg. Social media has been shown to be highly toxic to young adults. Most digital content, be it social media, video games, etc is being explicitly designed to addict users, especially children. Education is crumbling. Food is loaded with artificial sweeteners and additives making them addictive and unhealthy. Local communities and support have decayed. And all the while the average income in comparison to inflation has cratered, making it more difficult for parents to actually spend time away from work to actually parent.

The ability of parents to raise healthy, well adjusted children has gotten much more difficult in recent decades, largely due the pursuit of profit over human well-being. You can disagree with individual laws, but you should not simply bury your head in the sand and respond to every attempt to help parents out with “just do your job and parent!”

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#910

Post by dragonwriter »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #791
PathOfEclipse wrote: post #778

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people in high positions within the LDS Church often go into state and local politics and elect Yep. That's called a democracy, or a Republic, depending on which word you prefer. It's literally nothing like a Theocracy, in practice or in theory. You should probably study what an actual theocracy is: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/theocracy...

I would argue the U.K. and Israel count as theocracies, too. It’s not a strictly defined term. But I agree that having a religious voting block a theocracy does not make.

England (but not the UK) has caesaropapism rather than theocracy (they are similar in the absence of Church-State separation, but in theocracy the Church supervises the secular authority, where the reverse is true in caesaropapism.)
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