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Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

newscientist.com

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Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#161
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like it was a really heartfelt experience.

I certainly felt it.

I'm sorry, I had to. Re-reading your response though, there's something unclear to me. What part was intense and strange? Wouldn't it just be like going under and then waking up? Was there a sensation of going in and out as they performed surgery?

Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#162
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If reincarnation is real, I guess the afterlife faces a crisis due to the impending demographic crash here. The lines of souls awaiting reincarnation are about to get real long, as lots of people die of old age without people having children to ensure a fast return.

I reckon they'll just go stuffing multiple souls into each baby. Has anyone tried counting the number of souls per body?

That's how John Malkovich famously became a puppeteer

Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#163
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly felt it.

I'm sorry, I had to. Re-reading your response though, there's something unclear to me. What part was intense and strange? Wouldn't it just be like going under and then waking up? Was there a sensation of going in and out as they performed surgery?

I remember nothing of surgery itself, but for weeks after that I was on Vicodin and half-crazy. I remember a dream that felt like I had spent a hundred years on a submarine, with almost no input but the ping of a radar. I remember being mostly unable to participate in a Skype conversation my visiting parents had had with some friends from fifteen years ago, putting my head down, and seeing that everyone was in fact a tiny ship on a great expanding sea, getting farther and farther from each other, ala the big bang. I remember identifying with a pinball in a two-dimensional pinballish world -- somehow my sense of self was inside that world but my perception of it was from outside in the z-direction looking at it -- and the certainty that that pinball had to eventually get flushed down a certain exit pipe, and yet it never seemed to. Everything felt pregnant with metaphor for everything else -- the bed was school, a book was traffic, speech was rain.

It all sounds trippy and enjoyable to me as I write it now, but really, it sucked.

Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#164

If there's one hill I'm determined to die on (given the information that I have anyway) is that any scientific finding extrapolating information from "brain waves" or "region activation" is little more than modern day phrenology. Of course this is not an original thought, though I find it alarming that it's the minority opinion seeing as EEG/fMRI augury suffers from blatant methodological and even statistical flaws.…

> as EEG/fMRI augury suffers from blatant methodological and even statistical flaws Maybe https://www.nature.com/articles/s41593-023-01304-9.epdf

Thanks for the link, I love research papers fresh out of the oven.

> subject cooperation is required both to train and to apply the decoder

That's fascinating and kinda bends my intuition. Can't wait for the paper to be on ***hub (strangely my institution does not have access).

Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#165

> The sensation of moving down a tunnel towards a bright light, reliving past memories and hearing or seeing deceased relatives have all been reported by people from many cultures who have had a brush with death. Sceptics, however, say these experiences could be caused by people hallucinating as they recover in hospital. The way that the default is presented here is interesting. Interpreting the experiences as halluc…

Unfortunately many things in western culture that get close to mysticism are disregarded as hallucinations or random neurological firings. Same goes with dreams and such. It’s the ‘religion of science’ defaulting to the ‘god’ of deconstructionism. Just hallucinations, nothing more. I understand why, there’s certainly many things which were once said to be mystic, but ended up less so. However, anyone who has done res…

Well 'modern science' aka 'scientific materialism'.

Tons of the greatest scientists were religious and therefore not materialists.

It's pretty easy to just brush it all aside, but I don't think we should.

Also - I suggest you don't need to take acid, but rather just look into your child's eyes to start to fathom something more. I mean, the notion that we are merely blobs of particles randomly bouncing around completely disintegrates pretty much everything we would otherwise believe, I mean, literally the notion of 'intelligence' itself, as such a thing cannot exist out of randomness.

Imagine if scientific materialists had to preface every time they said 'life' or 'intelligence' or 'love' or 'creativity' or 'communication' or 'knowledge' with 'supposed life' or 'supposed intelligence' etc. because after all, 'we know none of that exists, neither does consciousness, and we are not having a discussion, we just appear to be having it'.

What's funny is a '5th force' that we might crudely refer to as 'Spirit' or whatever that seems to somehow influence matter/energy in some way, is literally and logically a better and more intuitive explanation that 'we are randomness'. And that position would be in many ways much less hypocritical than those walking around professing that they are 'nothing but noise' and yet living every aspect of their lives as though they were not.

Random particles cannot have 'rights' folks, so pick a side!

Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#166
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, I had to. Re-reading your response though, there's something unclear to me. What part was intense and strange? Wouldn't it just be like going under and then waking up? Was there a sensation of going in and out as they performed surgery?

I remember nothing of surgery itself, but for weeks after that I was on Vicodin and half-crazy. I remember a dream that felt like I had spent a hundred years on a submarine, with almost no input but the ping of a radar. I remember being mostly unable to participate in a Skype conversation my visiting parents had had with some friends from fifteen years ago, putting my head down, and seeing that everyone was in fact a…

This sounds very familiar to when I was a young man and I was given a lot of painkillers and had a very high fever due to an infection. I had a very intense waking dream where I felt like I was hurtling into an infinite void. I had a few flashbacks in the next week while totally sober. Overall it was an intensely unpleasant experience.

Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#167

Having recently recovered from Legionnaires where I was in a medically induced coma for nearly 2 months where I received CPR twice for flat-lining here is my experience... I didn't know what happened but I did get to meet deities, aliens and participate in a bunch of sci-fi oriented excursions. In short I learned about where the mind goes under a lot of drugs and I appreciate the experience. It was easier to remember…

I had open heart surgery once, and was given a lot of drugs. It was extremely intense and strange, and I felt like I was at the edge of discovering something immensely important. In retrospect I believe I learned nothing.

I'm very happy for your recovery, wishing you many more good years.

"It was extremely intense and strange, and I felt like I was at the edge of discovering something immensely important. In retrospect I believe I learned nothing."

I love that the "it" in this sentence could be lots of things, heart surgery, marriage, school, and even life as a whole itself.

Just a words thing

Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember nothing of surgery itself, but for weeks after that I was on Vicodin and half-crazy. I remember a dream that felt like I had spent a hundred years on a submarine, with almost no input but the ping of a radar. I remember being mostly unable to participate in a Skype conversation my visiting parents had had with some friends from fifteen years ago, putting my head down, and seeing that everyone was in fact a…

This sounds very familiar to when I was a young man and I was given a lot of painkillers and had a very high fever due to an infection. I had a very intense waking dream where I felt like I was hurtling into an infinite void. I had a few flashbacks in the next week while totally sober. Overall it was an intensely unpleasant experience.

When I was about 11 I had a bad flu with fever for a number of days. I was eventually hospitalized for dehydration as I could not drink or eat without vomiting. I don't remember a lot of detail but there were several periods of vertigo and a blurring of dreaming and being awake.

Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#169

If there's one hill I'm determined to die on (given the information that I have anyway) is that any scientific finding extrapolating information from "brain waves" or "region activation" is little more than modern day phrenology. Of course this is not an original thought, though I find it alarming that it's the minority opinion seeing as EEG/fMRI augury suffers from blatant methodological and even statistical flaws.…

As someone who works in EEG, you may be surprised that I somewhat agree with you. Let's start with where I am in agreement. EEG or fMRI data only tells us about electrical activity in the brain, specifically the firing of neurons in different patterns and areas of the brain. We are yet to make the absolute connection of how that electrical activity translates into thought. What I do find interesting is that in the ag…

The 1970's BBC series, "The Body In Question" [0] explained the functioning of the body as understood through medical history and I found it very interesting that the latest technology was always used as a metaphor (and sometimes more) to expand understanding.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Body_in_Question

Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately many things in western culture that get close to mysticism are disregarded as hallucinations or random neurological firings. Same goes with dreams and such. It’s the ‘religion of science’ defaulting to the ‘god’ of deconstructionism. Just hallucinations, nothing more. I understand why, there’s certainly many things which were once said to be mystic, but ended up less so. However, anyone who has done res…

Given that nobody has found concrete evidence of any phenomena being supernatural ever , defaulting to assuming natural causes seems reasonable to me. If you open your mind too much your brain might fall out.

> Given that nobody has found concrete evidence of any phenomena being supernatural ever,

I'm going to take issue with this. Anytime we sufficiently understand something it stops becoming supernatural and becomes natural. For a long time lightening, and disease were considered supernatural.

To assume there cannot exist things or beings we do not yet understand about the universe simply because we cannot explain it is the height of huburis.

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