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Classic fountain pens

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Re: Classic fountain pens

#151

Post by danShumway »

quantgenius wrote: post #50

This list is certainly not classic fountain pens. They are mostly machined pens made by small batch producers with generic nibs and two with somewhat "different" nibs I wouldn't normally suggest most people get. These are pretty good pens but not what I would get as a first pen. Here are the pens I would suggest you consider if you don't know a lot about fountain pens. If you are a fountain pen collector, I'm mostly…

+1 for the Twisbi Eco. I'm not a fountain pen expert but it's always served me well, and I love the piston filler and general maintainability. Great as a pen that gives a good writing experience but isn't so expensive that you're scared to carry it around with you or throw it in a bag. And the extra ink capacity means I can take the pen on short trips without bringing ink along with me.

Re: Classic fountain pens

#152

Post by dwringer »

quantgenius wrote: post #139
nunuvit wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you mean the nib wrote scratchy. Honestly, troubleshooting that issue is something you have to be prepared for if you have a fountain pen. I haven't used enough of any nib to know if some of them have genuine design or quality control problems, or if the volume of reports online is due to people expecting a more plug-and-play experience.

It's extremely rare to get a nib that isn't tuned pretty much perfectly if you buy a brand new pen made by one of the Japanese big 3, Pilot, Platinum and Sailor from an actual fountain pen retailer (online or brick and mortar). I've never gotten a remotely bad nib from any of those nor have I heard of someone getting a remotely bad nib from one of them. If you buy from eBay or used elsewhere or for that matter Amazon…

A lot of times, with Pilots especially, if they're sold for the Japanese domestic market the tines are extremely tight and the pens write very dry, to the point of needing adjustment for writing in roman-derived script. I have a few nice Pilots and of the high end ones bought from Japan, a little bit of skipping or dryness was common out of the box.

Re: Classic fountain pens

#153

Post by danShumway »

cfiggers wrote: post #29
foobarian wrote: post #16

What advantages do fountain pens still have over modern gel ballpoints? I like the whole experience of fountain pens, how nice they look and the 'old-school' aspect, but sadly I don't feel they are practical any more.

The advantages are all minor—mostly it's an aesthetic preference rather than a practical one. But there are a few small things: - The mechanism of a fountain pen relies on capillary action and gravity rather than the mechanical rolling action of a ballpoint. This means you don't have to press the point down into the paper almost at all in order to write. This reduces writing fatigue, and can even make writing possibl…

Generally agreed on all points, they're pens that feel good to write with and have little aesthetic joys to them that make writing more enjoyable. I like unscrewing the top of a pen. It's a little spark of joy. But it's mostly aesthetic and is likely fairly subjective.

> It's actually less work and strain with a ballpoint NOT to join all your letters together.

This to me is the biggest observable, practical difference that comes out of the capillary system of the pen. Anecdotally, my handwriting improved quite a bit when I started using a fountain pen.

Re: Classic fountain pens

#154

Post by disqard »

amelius wrote: post #8

Has anyone here improved their handwriting later in life? How much practice did it take?

Speaking only for myself, it took a few months of regular writing.

Like (perhaps) others, I had been forced to use them in grade school -- we were told that "it would improve our handwriting". It laid a foundation for fluency in cursive, but my actual handwriting was terrible.

However, when I came back to fountain pens (after a couple of decades), it was relatively easy to improve my script to where I'm happy with it. Having the "cursive" foundation probably helped a ton.

Re: Classic fountain pens

#155

Post by disqard »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #37
nunuvit wrote: post #2

For anyone with a budding or casual interest in fountain pens, the Lamy Safari is the way to go. They're plentiful, inexpensive, rugged, and have plenty of nibs, cartridges, and refillable cartridges to experiment with. Just pick your color and start using it to figure out what you value in a pen. Don't let the grip shape scare you off, you might like it more than you thought, but if not it won't ruin the value as an…

In my view, Lamy Safari is way overrated. Don't get me wrong, it's far from bad, a pretty consistent pen for the price. But the ink dries fast-ish if you don't use it, and especially, the cartridges are proprietary so you're tied to the brand's cartridges and ink colors (there's a piston converter, but converters, meh). A Pilot Metropolitan is approximately the same price and at least in my view, it's better as it us…

I will always lend my voice to a vote for the TWSBI Eco. I have used it after leaving it in a drawer for months, and it just starts up without issues.

Re: Classic fountain pens

#156

Post by yeahboats »

axiomdata316 wrote: post #135
quantgenius wrote: post #50

This list is certainly not classic fountain pens. They are mostly machined pens made by small batch producers with generic nibs and two with somewhat "different" nibs I wouldn't normally suggest most people get. These are pretty good pens but not what I would get as a first pen. Here are the pens I would suggest you consider if you don't know a lot about fountain pens. If you are a fountain pen collector, I'm mostly…

This is a great list. Just to piggyback on the Pilot Vanishing Point. I originally wasn't interested in getting one because I was put off with the clip being on the "wrong" end of the pen. I wound up purchasing the Mahjohn A1 which is basically a Chinese replica of the Pilot Vanishing Point. (I guess the patent expired after 50 years) It's my new favorite pen. Even with a steel nib it writes very smoothly. Because it…

Forgot to post my comment this morning so I'll post under here.

Another recommendation for the Mahjohn (or Moonman) A1. I have always adored the Pilot Vanishing Point but couldn't bring myself to spend 160 dollars on a pen, especially when most of my time is spent typing on a computer. So I found out about the Moonman A1 and I enjoyed writing with it so much that I ordered another. Feels great with some iroshizuku ink (I suppose this is my splurge) and Luechtterm 1917 notebook paper, which I only mention since ink/paper seems to have an impact on writing experience.

The pen also comes in a clipless version for those that want to avoid the clip.

Re: Classic fountain pens

#157

Post by nunuvit »

dwringer wrote: post #152
quantgenius wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's extremely rare to get a nib that isn't tuned pretty much perfectly if you buy a brand new pen made by one of the Japanese big 3, Pilot, Platinum and Sailor from an actual fountain pen retailer (online or brick and mortar). I've never gotten a remotely bad nib from any of those nor have I heard of someone getting a remotely bad nib from one of them. If you buy from eBay or used elsewhere or for that matter Amazon…

A lot of times, with Pilots especially, if they're sold for the Japanese domestic market the tines are extremely tight and the pens write very dry, to the point of needing adjustment for writing in roman-derived script. I have a few nice Pilots and of the high end ones bought from Japan, a little bit of skipping or dryness was common out of the box.

Most nib complaints can probably be resolved with proper adjustment and maintenance. If people were doing that, I'd expect the complaints to be more focused on how the nibs defy their efforts, as opposed to how the nibs write poorly.

Re: Classic fountain pens

#158

Post by tristor »

bborud wrote: post #116
tristor wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very true, the pen, ink, and paper work together to form a system. They all have some effect on all of the variables such as flow, ease of movement, drying time, etc. For the most part modern ink are better in every aspect compared to classic inks.

I'm not sure I understand the difference between modern and classic inks. Is there a definition somewhere? (I have 20-25 ink bottles of ink and by trial and error I've roughly figured out what ink works in what pen. I probably should know more about inks given that I write a lot, but I haven't made any systematic approach to figuring this out :-))

> I'm not sure I understand the difference between modern and classic inks. Is there a definition somewhere?

I'm not sure if there is an official definition. But what I mean by this, is that classic inks (like iron gall) were usually a combination of pigment and an acid as a carrier. Modern inks are usually alcohol or water carriers with nano-pigments or dyes, combined with surfactants which helps ensure the ink flows well without any issues across varied paper types.

Ink has moved forward rather significantly in modern times, but I am not a chemist so I can't really get into details. I've used (out of some desire for the archaic) some correct reproductions of classic inks like iron gall or other pigment inks and it is kind of nasty and clogs the nib of the pen, but leaves a very permanent mark on the paper that has a somewhat unique appearance. I know some people prefer something anachronistic, but I am a fan of modern ink for sure.

Re: Classic fountain pens

#159

Post by throwanem »

quantgenius wrote: post #138
throwanem wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [the Pilot Metropolitan] uses standard international cartridges I'm afraid not; Pilot cartridges are sui generis, and not compatible with either Lamy's own proprietary design or with "International Standard" cartridges. That said, there's nothing wrong with proprietary cartridges per se, given that fountain pen cartridges in general are a pretty niche good. I like Pilot cartridges for being refillable and resealabl…

The Pilot Metropolitans sold in Europe use standard international cartridges. The ones used in the US use proprietary Pilot cartridges.

No kidding! I had no idea.

Re: Classic fountain pens

#160

Post by okprod »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #37
nunuvit wrote: post #2

For anyone with a budding or casual interest in fountain pens, the Lamy Safari is the way to go. They're plentiful, inexpensive, rugged, and have plenty of nibs, cartridges, and refillable cartridges to experiment with. Just pick your color and start using it to figure out what you value in a pen. Don't let the grip shape scare you off, you might like it more than you thought, but if not it won't ruin the value as an…

In my view, Lamy Safari is way overrated. Don't get me wrong, it's far from bad, a pretty consistent pen for the price. But the ink dries fast-ish if you don't use it, and especially, the cartridges are proprietary so you're tied to the brand's cartridges and ink colors (there's a piston converter, but converters, meh). A Pilot Metropolitan is approximately the same price and at least in my view, it's better as it us…

Agree on the Lamy Safari drying out very quickly; I use it about once a week, and it is always dried out at first use. I know Montblanc can be overpriced, but it's the only pen I have that writes immediately without skipping after a time, even if I haven't used it in a month.

My daily drivers are a Lamy 2000 with a TWSBI Eco in different color ink for highlighting/commenting; I also carry a Pilot 823 on me as a backup to the Lamy 2000 but I have never been able to get used to the vacuum mechanism.

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