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Is infinity an odd or even number? (2011)

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Re: Is infinity an odd or even number? (2011)

#171
Ah, StackExchange!

The answer that says "Here is a simple example that has some hope of being comprehensible to a 6-year-old." and then begins "Consider the ring of polynomial functions with integer coefficients, ..." gets upvoted tens of times.

Even the answer that uses "numerocity", "refined cardinality", and "logarithm" as the explanation to a 6-year-old gets upvoted.

The answer, https://math.stackexchange.com/a/49065/13638, that says as the answer-to-a-6-year-old the same thing that several commenters have actually posted here (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35790064 for one of many), on Hacker News in just the past hour or so, and that explains in terms that a 6-year-old has at least a chance of having encountered, gets 5 votes in 12 years and the submitter is banned from the site.

Re: Is infinity an odd or even number? (2011)

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would weaken the definition of even/odd to say that a set is even if /there exists/ a way to pair things off, and odd if /there is no way/ to pair things off (ie, not even). So the countable numbers would be even.

But that seems redundant with countable/uncountable sets, because then every countable infinite set would be even (e.g. rational numbers), and every uncountable infinite set would be odd (e.g. real numbers). It's also not clear to me what justification there would be for a "preference" for the "even" category that way -- it seems arbitrary. Why not be odd if there exists a way to pair things off such that one is left…

I think the reals are also even: If x is rational pair it as you would in the rational case (which we assume is even - I haven't proven this). Otherwise pair it to -x, and thus the reals are even.

Being "even" seems like a much more interesting (and simpler) property of a set. I don't see what use there could be to know that you could pair things off, with one element left over. When you extend the notion you do have to decide what to preserve, but to me parity is much more about divisibility and symmetry than it is about reminader. I agree that it's arbitrary, though less arbitrary than the odd definition.

Re: Is infinity an odd or even number? (2011)

#174
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming sqrt(2)/2 is one of the elements of your set between 0 and 1, there are! See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countable_set

Sqrt(2)/2 can not be written as a decimal number. A decimal number is a rational whose denominator is an integer power of 10.

No, any rational number with a denominator that has only the prime factors of 2 and 5 will have a finite and exact decimal representation in base 10.

Re: Is infinity an odd or even number? (2011)

#175
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Infinity isn't a number, but it is an ordinal (and the answer does mention how you can have an even/odd property on the ordinals)

[flagged]

Which is also incorrect. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinal_numeral vs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinal_number.

Re: Is infinity an odd or even number? (2011)

#177
post #120

Well, I asked ChatGPT: > Infinity is not a number, odd or even, but rather a concept or a mathematical idea that represents an unbounded or limitless quantity. Infinity is not a real number that can be used in ordinary arithmetic operations, but it is used to describe a quantity that is larger than any finite number. Therefore, the concept of odd or even does not apply to infinity.

Imagine if we had ChatGPT a couple hundred years ago: "What is the square root of -1?": "The square root of -1 is not defined because you cannot take the square root of a negative number."

So you are proposing that a couple of hundred years ago, in 1823, a hypothetical ChatGPT would not have been trained on the works of Leonhard Euler, from 80 years before that.

That actually sounds about right. (-:

Re: Is infinity an odd or even number? (2011)

#178
Infinity is out of domain of integer numbers where notions of even and odd are defined and make sense.

Notion of infinity is applicable when we are discussing sequences and their behaviour, such as convergence.

Convergence of sequence x(n) to infinity by definition is: for each real number ε>0 there exists a natural number N(ε) such that for every number n≥N(ε) we have |x(n)|>ε.

Convergence of sequence x(n) to plus infinity by definition is: for each real number ε>0 there exists a natural number N(ε) such that for every number n≥N(ε) we have x(n)>ε.

Convergence of sequence x(n) to minus infinity by definition is: for each real number ε>0 there exists a natural number N(ε) such that for every number n≥N(ε) we have x(n)For example sequence of natural numbers 1, 2, 3... converges to plus infinity and to infinity; sequence of negated natural numbers -1, -2, -3... converges to minus infinity and to infinity; and sequence of sign-alternating numbers (-1)^n * n: -1, 2, -3, 4, -5, 6, -7, 8, -9, 10... converges to infinity.

So notion of infinity applies to behaviour of sequences, whose elements remain finite nevertheless. If we consider other mathematical objects, e.g. integer numbers, then notion of infinity does not apply. If we consider convergence of sequences where notion of infinity is applicable, then notion of even/odd is not applicable.

While discussing sequences converging to an infinity with a child, it may be useful to consider some interesting counterexamples: sequences which are unbounded, but still do not converge to infinity, e.g. 1, 2, 1, 4, 1, 6, 1, 8, 1, 10, 1, 12, 1, 14, 1, 16, 1, 18, 1, 20... (formula is n^((1+(-1)^n)/2)).

Re: Is infinity an odd or even number? (2011)

#179
post #72
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't. If you ask a child what comes after infinity, "Infinity + 1" is pretty much the default answer. Any kid who knows multiplication knows "Infinity + Infinity" is the same as "Infinity Times Two". The answer of "Infinity TIMES Infinity" is also popular for kids to say when they know a number bigger than their friend (who just proclaimed infinity is the largest number).

I thought that most of us learn at an early age, as a result of this kind of exchange, that "infinity" is not "the biggest number" or even a number at all, as far as the ordinary notion of "number" goes.

My child mind conflated infinity and God. Or maybe I was correct, I have no idea now.

Re: Is infinity an odd or even number? (2011)

#180
post #72
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't. If you ask a child what comes after infinity, "Infinity + 1" is pretty much the default answer. Any kid who knows multiplication knows "Infinity + Infinity" is the same as "Infinity Times Two". The answer of "Infinity TIMES Infinity" is also popular for kids to say when they know a number bigger than their friend (who just proclaimed infinity is the largest number).

I thought that most of us learn at an early age, as a result of this kind of exchange, that "infinity" is not "the biggest number" or even a number at all, as far as the ordinary notion of "number" goes.

No math instruction I had ever discussed infinity with any rigor until calculus -- and even then, it was only infinity as a limit. Infinity as a concept was brushed off in the same way that the square root of negative one was brushed off until we were actually taught about it.
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