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PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

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Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#721

Post by scarface74 »

nathan_compton wrote: post #675
scarface74 wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So exactly how is “engaging politically” going to help when the majority viewpoint is already ignored because they know they can just appealed to their gerrymandered system? Republicans can completely ignore California and Democrats can completely ignore the Bible Belt (except GA which is now Purple) As far as what the state can do. Again as a parent, when my children were minors, we chose trusted family members to b…

There are ways to engage politically that do not depend on the legal structures in place.

So what is the purpose of “engaging politically” if it’s not to change laws.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#722

Post by cmh89 »

Brendinooo wrote: post #656
cmh89 wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It will harm a kid *Citation needed

This sounds like a smart response until you think about the possibility of an academic study researching exposure of minors to hardcore porn. Think that would pass ethical muster? The fundamental questions are 1. Does porn usage line up with other patterns of addiction? 2. Are similarly addicting things withheld from children because their brains are less equipped to handle it? If yes to both, then it’s a no-brainer.

>This sounds like a smart response until you think about the possibility of an academic study researching exposure of minors to hardcore porn. Think that would pass ethical muster?

Well, yeah, it would...

>1. Does porn usage line up with other patterns of addiction?

I'm not sure what this question is asking. Porn usage may or may not 'line up' with patterns of addiction. That doesn't mean that porn always or even the majority of the time is. Can you rephrase this question into something more coherent?

>2. Are similarly addicting things withheld from children because their brains are less equipped to handle it?

LOL absolutely not. Children, especially American children, are given huge amounts of sugar, which is actually physically addictive. Many are given huge amounts of caffeine which is again, physically addictive.

Millions of children around the country have tons of access to video games and TV, which can be addictive.

>If yes to both, then it’s a no-brainer.

Well, you're first question doesn't make any sense, and your second question is a resounding no.

The best way to keep your child from becoming addicted to anything is to act like a parent.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#723

Post by poulsbohemian »

uncletammy wrote: post #660
anigbrowl wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2. I don't want to live in a permission society where I have to submit to inspection to do anything. If it’s not a big deal then verifying your age shouldn’t phase you anymore than verifying your age to buy alcohol. I don't like that either and some years ago I stopped providing my ID on request. Corporate vendors (eg supermarkets) still insist on asking my birthdate. I'm in my 50s. Paternalistic attitudes infantiliz…

> I don't like that either and some years ago I stopped providing my ID on request. How does this work with picking up prescription medication?

Funny enough in my small town - I walk into the pharmacy, they ask the name and birthdate of the person for whom I'm picking up the meds (generally my kids), I pay and leave. On the other hand, at least for a while if you wanted to buy Sudafed (OTC) at a grocery store, they would ask for ID and write you down on a paper list. ???

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#724

Post by wyldberry »

xdennis wrote: post #445
afavour wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ll get some angry responses to this but I think it’s very worthwhile to say. Yes , ID verification in order to watch pornography is deeply Orwellian and terrifying (which is the aspect places like HN tend to focus on) but the bulk of the public support for these measures isn’t because people want government surveillance, it’s because they want to look out for children. Are they misguided? Perhaps. But you can’t w…

> it’s because they want to look out for children The issue is that it's _their_ job to look out for their children. We don't force all beds to have "walls", and give adults the keys to lower them if they show proof of age. Parents are supposed to buy _cribs_ for their children.

It takes a village to raise children. While it is the parent's responsibility to raise a child, it's not unreasonable for them to ask government to make society conducive for raising and protecting the next generation. The incentives are mismatched. The organizations providing access to pornography have no incentive to limit access to their product without legal enforcement.

Hacker News is filled with technical people. However, think about all the workers who are not tech workers who have families. The burden of knowledge for these parents to setup home networks and devices that provide content filtering, monitoring, and alerting is way too high.

Access to pornography ends up being an economic negative externality caused by the increased access to the internet, and we haven't really figured out how to handle the cost.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#725

Post by [deleted] »

Brendinooo wrote: post #656
cmh89 wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It will harm a kid *Citation needed

This sounds like a smart response until you think about the possibility of an academic study researching exposure of minors to hardcore porn. Think that would pass ethical muster? The fundamental questions are 1. Does porn usage line up with other patterns of addiction? 2. Are similarly addicting things withheld from children because their brains are less equipped to handle it? If yes to both, then it’s a no-brainer.

[deleted]

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#726

Post by poulsbohemian »

cmh89 wrote: post #603
brightball wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s such a strange dichotomy in these conversations. 1. Porn shouldn’t be available to kids and it’s on the vendors legally to ensure that. 2. Porn should be unrestricted, it’s up to parents to do something about it. What I can’t understand is if the people in camp 2 are so unashamed of the porn advocacy then why is age verification such a big deal? If it’s not a big deal then verifying your age shouldn’t phase y…

>What I can’t understand is if the people in camp 2 are so unashamed of the porn advocacy then why is age verification such a big deal? When marijuana became legalized in my state, you had to verify your age and they wrote down your ID in a book. It quickly went away because its draconian as shit. I'm not ashamed to buy weed or alcohol, or look at porn, but I still don't want to create a written record every time I d…

>I still don't want to create a written record every time I do it.

What I couldn't understand about this scenario (regardless of the product being purchased) is... how does it possibly get tracked? Like can't I just drive across town to the other grocery store and buy more cold meds there? How on earth is the state (???) collecting and reconciling paper records in the 21st century? The likely answer is that they aren't, but someone who wrote the law was certain there had to be an audit trail...

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#727

Post by freedomben »

theptip wrote: post #333
taylodl wrote: post #190

An identity provider can make verified age one of the claims on an OAuth token. It removes anonymity, but at least you don't have to provide your personal details to everybody on the internet demanding age verification. You provide those details to your trusted identity provider, they provide the claim of your age to the website. With that in place we can easily make beer, liquor, marijuana and tobacco sales on the i…

+1 for teaching lawmakers how to achieve their goals at the protocol layer. Imagine how much better the web would be if cookie consent was a browser protocol on top of HTTP headers. This is the Obviously Correct solution, they just needed to work with browser vendors to make it happen. I’d rather you have websites support a generic cryptographically-secure claim schema for ages (implementable in any signed token the…

> Imagine how much better the web would be if cookie consent was a browser protocol on top of HTTP headers. This is the Obviously Correct solution, they just needed to work with browser vendors to make it happen.

This is a great idea, and it doesn't seem like we need lawmakers to do anything about it. If browsers implemented this, websites could start using it right?

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#728

Post by PathOfEclipse »

solarmist wrote: post #688
PathOfEclipse wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can suck on it when you are a baby, but god forbid you ever take a look at it again before you are married. It turns out, a mother's nipple has a far different effect on an infant than a young adult female nipple does on a teenage boy. If this is difficult for you to grasp, then you should consider stepping away from this conversation, as there is clearly nuance here that the average person can easily understan…

If your moral code dictates what other people can or cannot do with their own lives in their homes then I contend that your moral code may be corrupt or severely misguided.

> If your moral code dictates what other people can or cannot do with their own lives

That's literally the point of law. One person writes the law, and it dictates what others can and can't do with their lives. Are you an anarchist? Or are you just not thinking clearly about what you are saying?

If thing X demonstrably causes major harm to individuals, then it is often in the purview of government to restrict adults from exposing minors to X.

I think you should reflect a little on what you actually believe and why you believe it.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#729

Post by George83728 »

mattpallissard wrote: post #680
tenacious_tuna wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tldr: if your kid keeps breaking the rules, ramping up enforcement is not going to change that for the same reasons that punitive punishment in the judicial system is not effective. Your kid has to understand why the rules are if they're ever going to function well within them, and that also requires a level of parental compassion and understanding that often isn't present. > If your son keeps braking the rules you'v…

> if your kid keeps breaking the rules, ramping up enforcement is not going to change that I can't speak for all children, but I have five of them and this works pretty damned well in most circumstances.

Yeah, there's a reason every single society on Earth, across all cultures, will dish out some form of punishment for misbehavior, however they define it. Even in Sweden or other scandi countries where I am told murderers are rehabilitated instead of punished, if you drive at 300 km/hr through a residential neighborhood I'm certain they'll hit you with a massive fine at the very least.

Why is punishing misbehavior such a universal practice across all human cultures? Because it works. It never works perfectly but it does work generally.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#730

Post by Waterluvian »

wakannai wrote: post #328

Multiple issues with this. It starts off with arbitrary definitions of what pornography is ( https://le.utah.gov/~2023/bills/static/SB0287.html ): "nipple of the female breast" You can suck on it when you are a baby, but god forbid you ever take a look at it again before you are married. What's wrong with these people? Even public nudity laws differ from city to city (e.g. in California), so clearly, people aren't al…

One of my favourite concepts in "late night" style comedy is when they test the censors by gradually incrementing something boring into something "unacceptable," whether it be language, the context of a sketch, or something graphic. And then once they've got the line they play with that line (eg. words/names that sound like "fuck", or Cecily Strong having sex with Bill Hader under a small throw).

One of the best ways to demonstrate how ridiculous and un-thinking this position is would be to do just that. If they "know it when they see it", just say "when!" as we systematically wax, outfit, camera angle, and contextualize this stereotypical, upper-endowed male football fan into a gorgeous female, who then slowly gets topless.

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