Earlier quoted context omitted.
No it isn't. If you ask a child what comes after infinity, "Infinity + 1" is pretty much the default answer. Any kid who knows multiplication knows "Infinity + Infinity" is the same as "Infinity Times Two". The answer of "Infinity TIMES Infinity" is also popular for kids to say when they know a number bigger than their friend (who just proclaimed infinity is the largest number).
Six-year-olds know multiplication?
Is infinity an odd or even number? (2011)
161–170 of 398 posts
Re: Is infinity an odd or even number? (2011)
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
No it isn't. If you ask a child what comes after infinity, "Infinity + 1" is pretty much the default answer. Any kid who knows multiplication knows "Infinity + Infinity" is the same as "Infinity Times Two". The answer of "Infinity TIMES Infinity" is also popular for kids to say when they know a number bigger than their friend (who just proclaimed infinity is the largest number).
Six-year-olds know multiplication?
By age 6 to 7 they're expected to understand that addition and multiplication are commutative, while subtraction and division are not.
Re: Is infinity an odd or even number? (2011)
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
The definition given was 'if there is another ordinal 𝛽 such that 2⋅𝛽=𝛼' [1], but the intuition is better explained by the post below: > A set 𝑆 has even cardinality if it can be written as the disjoint union of two subsets 𝐴,𝐵 which have the same cardinality. [2] In other words, a set is even if it can be paired up, by finding one grouping where it pairs. Finding alternative groupings that do not pair does not…
OK, so I guess I'm just understanding that mathematicians arbitrarily decided to prioritize "even" over "odd"? Because as I stated in another comment, you could just as easily say odd cardinality exists if you can find two subsets with the same cardinality and there's one element left over, and otherwise we call it even. So at the end of the day, what you're saying is that ultimately infinity would be even just becau…
Re: Is infinity an odd or even number? (2011)
#164Infinity is not a number, it's the absence of a limit.
Even if sequence is unbounded, it does not always converge to infinity, e.g. n^((1+(-1)^n)/2): 1, 2, 1, 4, 1, 6, 1, 8, 1, 10, 1, 12, 1, 14, 1, 16, 1, 18, 1, 20 ...
Convergence of sequence x(n) to infinity by definition is: for each real number ε>0 there exists a natural number N(ε) such that for every number n≥N(ε) we have |x(n)|>ε.
Re: Is infinity an odd or even number? (2011)
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would weaken the definition of even/odd to say that a set is even if /there exists/ a way to pair things off, and odd if /there is no way/ to pair things off (ie, not even). So the countable numbers would be even.
But that seems redundant with countable/uncountable sets, because then every countable infinite set would be even (e.g. rational numbers), and every uncountable infinite set would be odd (e.g. real numbers). It's also not clear to me what justification there would be for a "preference" for the "even" category that way -- it seems arbitrary. Why not be odd if there exists a way to pair things off such that one is left…
Uncountability is a particularly interesting form of non-divisibility, so I'm just fine calling all uncountable sets odd and countable sets even...
(And just because we're hung up on divisibility by two, let us remember: All prime numbers are odd, and two is the oddest of them all.)
Re: Is infinity an odd or even number? (2011)
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
The definition given was 'if there is another ordinal 𝛽 such that 2⋅𝛽=𝛼' [1], but the intuition is better explained by the post below: > A set 𝑆 has even cardinality if it can be written as the disjoint union of two subsets 𝐴,𝐵 which have the same cardinality. [2] In other words, a set is even if it can be paired up, by finding one grouping where it pairs. Finding alternative groupings that do not pair does not…
OK, so I guess I'm just understanding that mathematicians arbitrarily decided to prioritize "even" over "odd"? Because as I stated in another comment, you could just as easily say odd cardinality exists if you can find two subsets with the same cardinality and there's one element left over, and otherwise we call it even. So at the end of the day, what you're saying is that ultimately infinity would be even just becau…
Modern mathematics is all about coming up with definitions and rules that give rise to interesting (to a mathematician!) properties when further investigated.
The definition given naturally lets the ordinal numbers continue the odd/even/odd... pattern. Choosing the alternative definition would not.
In one sense that's 'arbitrary' because we decided on one definition over another. But another sense, we picked the parity rule that lets us extend the same pattern from the natural numbers, so it's a 'better' parity rule. And the fact that one rule gives this pattern while the other does not, did not come from humans, but is a 'metamathematical fact' from the universe of possible ways to define things.
So I would say this definition is not fully arbitrary, it's an interaction between what mathematicians find interesting and the Platonic realm of possible mathematical constructs.
Anyway, I'm not a mathematician but it seems this is how the game of math is played: to continually discover new rules that give rise to more interesting math.
Re: Is infinity an odd or even number? (2011)
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
The definition given was 'if there is another ordinal 𝛽 such that 2⋅𝛽=𝛼' [1], but the intuition is better explained by the post below: > A set 𝑆 has even cardinality if it can be written as the disjoint union of two subsets 𝐴,𝐵 which have the same cardinality. [2] In other words, a set is even if it can be paired up, by finding one grouping where it pairs. Finding alternative groupings that do not pair does not…
OK, so I guess I'm just understanding that mathematicians arbitrarily decided to prioritize "even" over "odd"? Because as I stated in another comment, you could just as easily say odd cardinality exists if you can find two subsets with the same cardinality and there's one element left over, and otherwise we call it even. So at the end of the day, what you're saying is that ultimately infinity would be even just becau…
To get a feel for why this is convenient, consider that you can generalize by replacing "multiples of 2" with "multiples of n". Then, instead of splitting everything into two sets (even/odd), we can naturally split the integers into n sets called equivalence classes modulo n. For n=10, these would be "multiples of 10", "numbers whose remainder after dividing by 10 is 1", "numbers whose remainder after dividing by 10 is 2", and so on. Seen this way, you may find it less arbitrary now.
Re: Is infinity an odd or even number? (2011)
#168Re: Is infinity an odd or even number? (2011)
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
The definition given was 'if there is another ordinal 𝛽 such that 2⋅𝛽=𝛼' [1], but the intuition is better explained by the post below: > A set 𝑆 has even cardinality if it can be written as the disjoint union of two subsets 𝐴,𝐵 which have the same cardinality. [2] In other words, a set is even if it can be paired up, by finding one grouping where it pairs. Finding alternative groupings that do not pair does not…
OK, so I guess I'm just understanding that mathematicians arbitrarily decided to prioritize "even" over "odd"? Because as I stated in another comment, you could just as easily say odd cardinality exists if you can find two subsets with the same cardinality and there's one element left over, and otherwise we call it even. So at the end of the day, what you're saying is that ultimately infinity would be even just becau…
Re: Is infinity an odd or even number? (2011)
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
I explained basically this to my 4 year old nephew recently. He wanted to count to infinity. I asked him what is the biggest problem with counting to infinity? It's too slow. I said ok let's take bigger steps. We counted by 2's then 10's then hundreds and millions and then zillions and other ridiculous superlative numbers. It doesn't really matter because everything is still too slow. So then we said ok lets make up…
I taught my kid that the way to think of infinity is that it's like hugs, there's always one more, unlike candy, which is limited and can be counted, infinity cannot be counted.
A countably infinite set could be 'counted' (i.e., you could sit around labeling elements using the 'natural' or 'counting' numbers) in the sense that we might count candy. The issue for a human being is that you'd run out of time but not elements to count, at least, proceeding in the sense one might count the candy - a piece at a time. Of course, you can, instead, simply provide a 'bijection' (between the natural numbers and the set you wish to prove is countably infinite), and in a sense, you are done.
The subject of infinity and infinite sets can be kind of subtle, and for years the best mathematicians made many mistakes and had many difficulties handling these concepts in ways that didn't cause potentially serious problems (absurdities, paradoxes, etc.). I think that with the development of things like Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory, Gödel's incompleteness theorems, etc., things became a lot clearer. It's a lot easier, with all of the groundwork laid by people who worked on these, to get a good sense of what is possible and what isn't - what gets you into trouble and what doesn't. But, boy, did it twist the minds of the people trying to work it out at the time. In part, this is because it was less clear, without development in these areas, what math even is and what its limits are ... what its relationship to the structure of the universe, say, even is (something along those lines, in my opinion / experience).