Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers • Hacker News Board

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#21

Post by verdverm » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:28 PM UTC

rvz wrote: post #4

A magnificent game changing project once again by the creator(s) of LLVM. I think this time they might have a proper Python alternative. Many have tried like Julia Lang, R, C#, Swift, Rust, Haskell, etc and all have failed in competing against Python. Perhaps this time, we finally have one that is a proper replacement for anything requiring intensive compute and performance without being a systems programmer, all tha…

Will I be able to use all of the existing libraries from Python?

If not, it's going to be hard to make the switch

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#22

Post by cs702 » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:30 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #17

cs702 wrote: post #2

Well, I'm blown away. If this succeeds, it will allow you to use Python for the entire AI stack: high-level model composition (as usual), fast compiled CPU code (instead of, say, libs written with C++), and on-device operations (instead of, say, libs that use CUDA). Oh, and it will make your Python code parallel (i.e., there's no GIL). Obviously, we'll have to wait until Mojo is production-ready, but I'm excited afte…

This isn’t Python though, right? It’s just a Python-like syntax for a much lower level programming language (sort of like Cython) from my cursory glance? It seems a lot like Rust with a Pythonic veneer, so I would expect it will run into many of the same problems that Rust has (lots of difficulty pacifying the borrow checker)?

The source code is Python (well, a superset of Python), but it's not interpreted and run by the official Python interpreter. Judging by what I've seen so far, it seems Modular has been able to "Rustify+Tritonify" Python code in a way that to me feels... very Pythonic.

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#23

Post by UncleOxidant » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:33 PM UTC

chrislattner wrote: post #20

There are a bunch of questions about Julia, so I'll do my best to give a short answer to a very long and complicated topic. Up front, Julia is a wonderful language and a wonderful community, I am a super fan. That said, Mojo is a completely different thing. It is aligned with the Python community to solve specific problems outlined here: https://docs.modular.com/mojo/why-mojo.html Mojo also has a bunch of technical a…

I notice that Mojo still seems to use numpy or something that looks "numpyish" for compatibility. Will Mojo also have an alternative syntax for doing things like matrix multiplication that looks more native like Julia's?

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#24

Post by drivingmenuts » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:36 PM UTC

Somewhere out there, a recruiter is gearing up to demand 5 years experience with Mojo before they will look at your resume.

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#25

Post by l2dy » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:36 PM UTC

A file extension of [fire emoji], this is not easy to type from a terminal.

Edit: It's even stripped on HN!

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#26

Post by funks_ » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:37 PM UTC

chrislattner wrote: post #20

There are a bunch of questions about Julia, so I'll do my best to give a short answer to a very long and complicated topic. Up front, Julia is a wonderful language and a wonderful community, I am a super fan. That said, Mojo is a completely different thing. It is aligned with the Python community to solve specific problems outlined here: https://docs.modular.com/mojo/why-mojo.html Mojo also has a bunch of technical a…

Are there any plans for native autodiff systems in Mojo?

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#27

Post by calebm » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:37 PM UTC

Python Interoperability seems like a killer feature.

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#28

Post by mirekrusin » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:37 PM UTC

chrislattner wrote: post #20

There are a bunch of questions about Julia, so I'll do my best to give a short answer to a very long and complicated topic. Up front, Julia is a wonderful language and a wonderful community, I am a super fan. That said, Mojo is a completely different thing. It is aligned with the Python community to solve specific problems outlined here: https://docs.modular.com/mojo/why-mojo.html Mojo also has a bunch of technical a…

Hold on, are you behind it? ...looks like it!

This "detail" shouldn't be hidden away, it means a lot.

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#29

Post by UncleOxidant » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:38 PM UTC

chrislattner wrote: post #20

There are a bunch of questions about Julia, so I'll do my best to give a short answer to a very long and complicated topic. Up front, Julia is a wonderful language and a wonderful community, I am a super fan. That said, Mojo is a completely different thing. It is aligned with the Python community to solve specific problems outlined here: https://docs.modular.com/mojo/why-mojo.html Mojo also has a bunch of technical a…

> Julia is far more mature and advanced in many ways. Many folks have and will continue to push Julia forward and we wish them the best, it is a lovely ecosystem and language. There is room for more than one thing! :)

In general this tends to be true. However, in this case I'm not so sure. Modular seems to have garnered a lot of investment - probably orders of magnitude more than the Julia community has been able to get. There are a lot of nagging problems in Julia (startup times - though that's gotten better recently, ML kernel performance, and executables come to mind) that could have been easily fixed if they had the money to throw at them. Since they haven't had that kind of investment people who kick Julia's tires tend to see these things as built-in limitations and move on.

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#30

Post by staticfloat » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:39 PM UTC

chrislattner wrote: post #20

There are a bunch of questions about Julia, so I'll do my best to give a short answer to a very long and complicated topic. Up front, Julia is a wonderful language and a wonderful community, I am a super fan. That said, Mojo is a completely different thing. It is aligned with the Python community to solve specific problems outlined here: https://docs.modular.com/mojo/why-mojo.html Mojo also has a bunch of technical a…

I really like the integration of lower-level memory control in a superset of Python. Trying to maintain compatibility with such a large and varied ecosystem is a daunting task, and has the opportunity to be very valuable for many people who don't want (or are unable) to move away from the Python ecosystem. Kudos to you all for tackling such a difficult problem! Good luck, I look forward to seeing how you guys help to increase efficiency across the board!