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PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

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Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#581

The US is also planning a law that would make it illegal to use VPNs to skirt laws like this: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/04/could-tiktok-ban...

It always been illegal to use VPNs to skirt laws. Downloading movies doesn't become legal when you use a VPN, lol.

Downloading a movie is illegal, using a VPN to do it is not. If using a VPN was illegal then you would have two charges and extra time in prison. That's a giant difference.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#582
post #502
post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lottery tickets are extremely inexpensive. But what do you think would happen to consumption of lotto tickets if they went from $3 to free, especially in a frictionless environment where you can just download them?

Lottery tickets are substantially more expensive than sugar. And if lotto tickets were free, (1) there would be no harm in consuming them and (2) you would also win $0, and no one would buy them.

That’s kinda the point. Sugar is also "substantially" more expensive than "free" pornography. With your analogy of sugar, there isn’t the same asymmetry of risk/reward as there is with “free” pornography.

The reward of lotto tickets is a function of cost with the current approach, but that’s the wrong point to get wrapped around the axle. Consider instead that if the lotto reward is funded by taxes. The point is the risk/reward profile gets skewed.

As an aside, I’m pretty sure you can find evidence that excessive gambling is a net negative.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Wikipedia page for pornography addiction lists several good sources: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_addiction And YourBrainOnPorn gathered together some of the literature about escalation: https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/nl/relevant-research-and-art...

Here's the first sentence of the Wikipedia article: > Pornography addiction is the popular but unscientific[5] application of an addiction model to the use of pornography. [5] Science Stopped Believing in Porn Addiction. You Should, Too. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/women-who-stray/2018...

Yes, I read the article and the sentences which followed the first. I was referring you to the references below it.

See this comment about the difficulty of getting pornography addiction recognised in the DSM: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35790536

It's more of an issue of classifying it separately from other sexual disorders than recognising the addictive potential of pornography itself.

I myself have been addicted to pornography so I understand the reality of it intimately. I have been in groups with other men who are distraught with their lack of control. I have spoken to countless women whose relationships have been destroyed by this.

I can point you towards some large support groups online if you'd like to inform the men who are suffering that their issue is not scientifically recognised.

By the way, did you have anything to say about the other point I made? It wasn't clear which point the grandparent was finding questionable.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ummm. Don't think of the US this way? Think of it as a complex representative government that is federated and representing a highly diverse population, unlike Iran, which is not exactly pro-immigration. Our government is at least partly reactive to our votes. Utah is very different from Colorado or California or Connecticut. So, no, nothing like rich Iran.

>Our government is at least partly reactive to our votes So is Iran's. Keep in mind the country is a theocratic Republic that turned out this way because of a popular religious revolt against a secular absolutist monarch. That bottom up, democratic, religious zealotry is something you also have in the US but virtually nowhere in the developed world.

So you're saying there is no religious zealotry in Europe?

What about the Christian Democratic Union of Germany which officially believes in Catholic Democracy and didn't recognize same-sex marriage until 2017?

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#585
post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mob violence and hate crimes =/= state sanctioned violence. Readers should note that all of the cited examples here are considered criminal and illegal in the United States.

They literally asked "with or without trial"

i.e. state sanctioned or publicly accepted execution without trial.

No law on earth can physically prevent someone from acquiring a weapon and killing members of the LGBT community, the difference is whether this is tolerated and/or endorsed by the state and public, which it is not.

You provided a list of heinous crimes that in no way reflects the views of the United States government or the general public.

To make it even clearer, recent LGBT violence is not even remotely relatable to the widespread lynchings of Black Americans (which you are evoking with this word) that was 'illegal' yet systemically tolerated in the early-mid 1900s.

Literally none of these LGBT crimes were associated with a mob proclaiming justice as was the case with historical lynchings.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't apply this principle to something like peanut allergies. "If your kid touches a peanut, that's on you as a parent"? No, people recognized that peanuts are harmful enough to a certain segment of the population that it's worth making changes, even changes that might inconvenience others. Besides, I'm not sure why you think that parents are able to be 100% in control of things that their children see/eat/etc. S…

Yes and forcing people to show ID has really stopped underaged drinking and making drugs illegal have stopped people from smoking weed.

Laws against murder haven't stopped murder, so I guess those laws are useless.

Gun control laws? Japan's ex-PM got blown away by a wacko with a homemade shotgun, so I guess gun control laws just don't work. Nevermind the rate of gun violence in Japan.. it's all or nothing.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think of helicopter parenting? What about the "free range" movement? What's the proper balance of freedom and privacy for kids?

I was a free range kid (we just called it "being a kid" though). I feel bad for the kids of helicopter parents - the parent is hiding them from the world and blocking them from learning about the world as it exists and from discovering how they can/will interact with it. Then one day they cross a threshold of "number of days alive" and are expected to know how to live in the world they haven't ever been exposed to. S…

I agree. But if you aren't going to be a helicopter parent there needs to be some safety valves for when kids go too far off the rails.

Calling a parent shitty because their kid does something they would prefer they didn't means we've all had shitty parents. Kids are individuals that gain preferences the minute they gain any sort of mobility and trying to reign everything in will backfire.

I don't have strong opinions on this particular topic. I don't think porn is quite so damaging as others to the point where society needs to protect them. But the rational response to the views you expressed seems to contradict your actual views on the subject of how parents should raise their kids.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#588
post #564
post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehh it's definitely not just the ultra religious conservatives who are raising issues with pornography. I see a lot more "health bro influencer"/Andrew Tate types warn against watching porn because they think it makes people weak minded, which I would agree with when it turns into an addiction and actually impacts your ability to form real life relationships.

You might see a lot of that personally, but the Utah legislature has a dearth of "health bro influencer" types, especially in its Senate. The chief sponsor of the bill went to BYU.[1] The co-sponsor of the bill went to BYU [2] [1] https://senate.utah.gov/sen/WEILET/ [2] https://house.utleg.gov/rep/PULSIS/ Edit: spacing

Roughly 1/3rd of the House and Senate of Utah are BYU grads [1], and BYU is not the only religious Mormon university in Utah, just the largest.

Utah was literally founded as a state to be a place for Mormons[2], because they were a persecuted religious minority in other states. I grew up in Missouri, and part of Missouri state history is that of the 1838 Mormon War[3]. At one point the Governor of Missouri signed an order that paid out for the scalps of Mormons[4]. The aftermath was a mass migration of Mormons from Missouri to what became Utah, literally founded as a place for Mormons, to this day Mormons consider Independence, Missouri as a holy site, but Utah is the headquarters of the LDS Church and the predominant residence of Mormons in the US.

It is for all intents and purposes a theocratic state within the US.

[1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/07/23/b...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Utah#Settlement_by_...

[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1838_Mormon_War

[4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_Extermination_Order

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#589
post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it matter? Why is it bad when people like getting choked and it's happening consensually?

Choking's sort of an interesting case for this, because it's one where someone should (ideally) also be doing it safely . Someone can enjoy it and consent to it, but not be sufficiently educated to do it without more risk than they realize. (This applies to many acts, but this one's particularly potentially-lethal.) Porn, being a fantasy, rarely shows the prep-work required to do something properly. This is what I pe…

It's the same with Shibari, that's in fact a lot more dangerous than choking if not done properly. Because choking you can simply stop when you notice it's going wrong. A Shibari rope that isn't secured and suddenly slips to the neck takes time to cut.

Yet Shibari is viewed as an art form because it's much more stylish.

But people really into this kind of stuff are also very much into consent and safe practices. Is there really a wave of accidental chokings?

School shootings on the other hand... Maybe we should look at violent movies first?

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#590
post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It very much lines up with the historical context. In Hammurabi's Code fathers could literally sell their kids into slavery. This seems strange, shouldn’t society protect kids? But it turns out that’s a relatively recent idea, instead there were rules around what happens when both parents die but children were plentiful and many where injured or even killed by their parents without consequence.

Ah yes, who doesn't want to return to the good old days of the code of Hammurabi.

Weren’t you the one just making an appeal to history and tradition above?
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