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PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

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Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#491

Post by ufmace »

berkes wrote: post #193
theclansman wrote: post #182

Just the fact that pornography is being taken seriously as something that's dangerous for minors is a good thing really.

But is pornography dangerous for minors? Has it been researched? What "dangers" are there? Do these apply to all age groups of "minors"?

It seems likely to be, particularly in the forms available today. There seems to be increasing consciousness on this both on the left and the right.

The Left has been increasingly concerned about the abusive acts becoming common in pornography and the seemingly pervasive use of underage or barely-of-age women with consent extremely sketchy or not present at all.

The Right has been increasingly concerned about how the pervasive presence of pornography encourages people to focus on that for their needs rather than pursuing real-life relationships and obsess over extreme acts that very few real partners are actually willing to do.

This is all exacerbated by internet startup tendencies, where maximizing "engagement" at all costs is the priority. It's in their incentives to maximize most of the bad effects that everyone is concerned about.

It's not clear exactly how bad everything is or that this particular thing is the right way to address it. But clearly enough people are concerned about it and aren't willing to accept endless delaying tactics around insisting that you can't do any particular thing about it because it can't be proved to be perfect.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#492

Post by AlecSchueler »

Aachen wrote: post #459
AlecSchueler wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pornography is dangerous. It's extremely addictive and users become increasingly tolerant to what their viewing, often leading to the development of distressing fetishes or real life intimacy issues. I'm sex positive and I believe in being open with children about the realities of life but the dangers of pornography are real.

When you use the word "extremely", what kind of incidence are you referring to? If someone says "water is extremely common in the solar system", I'd expect maybe two in three planets to have it. Half at minimum.

More than half of divorce cases in the US mention compulsive pornography usage: https://s3.amazonaws.com/thf_media/2010/pdf/ManningTST.pdf

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#493

Post by pmichaud »

Osiris wrote: post #437
mattpallissard wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why aren't parents doing basic things like setting up content filters? Not a comment on the policy; I'm a parent and AFAICT none of my cohorts in town know how to do this.

My son runs a vpn to get around my dns enforced fillers. I’ve tried to block vpns but he still finds a way.

I feel like if you’re involved in a red queen race of VPNs and filtering, your kid is probably old enough to see whatever they are trying to see?

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#494

Post by scarface74 »

edgyquant wrote: post #485
wakannai wrote: post #328

Multiple issues with this. It starts off with arbitrary definitions of what pornography is ( https://le.utah.gov/~2023/bills/static/SB0287.html ): "nipple of the female breast" You can suck on it when you are a baby, but god forbid you ever take a look at it again before you are married. What's wrong with these people? Even public nudity laws differ from city to city (e.g. in California), so clearly, people aren't al…

Way to regurgitate a tired argument. Kids are addicted to porn before they’re old enough to drive these days and it’s messes them up for life (see: the incel movement.) Something has to be done about corporations that profit off of showing literal children hardcore porn. “Talking to your kids” doesn’t work when multinational corporations are incentivized to addict them for ad revenue.

If only most internet connected devices came with parental controls…

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#495

Post by mrweasel »

taylodl wrote: post #190

An identity provider can make verified age one of the claims on an OAuth token. It removes anonymity, but at least you don't have to provide your personal details to everybody on the internet demanding age verification. You provide those details to your trusted identity provider, they provide the claim of your age to the website. With that in place we can easily make beer, liquor, marijuana and tobacco sales on the i…

Denmark has a system like this, MitID, it support OAuth2 and OpenID Connect, so here it should be possible. The US doesn't have a country wide system for identification only, not that I know of at least. I can understand companies, like PornHub, not wanting to pay along, unless the government provides a system for age verification. Still it would also be a lot of work to integrate with every single government ID scheme around the world.

Also they normally aren't free to use, each query normally cost money, why would the porn sites want to pay for a service they didn't want anyway.

Another issue with these system: They are high value target and they tend to be just as crashy as other government IT projects.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#496

Post by satvikpendem »

Osiris wrote: post #437
mattpallissard wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why aren't parents doing basic things like setting up content filters? Not a comment on the policy; I'm a parent and AFAICT none of my cohorts in town know how to do this.

My son runs a vpn to get around my dns enforced fillers. I’ve tried to block vpns but he still finds a way.

Interesting dichotomy among the sibling comments. One is about removing privileges, the other is about (ostensibly) empowering a smart kid to continue learning how to hack and eventually possibly make a career out of it.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#497

Post by [deleted] »

djha-skin wrote: post #400
taylodl wrote: post #190

An identity provider can make verified age one of the claims on an OAuth token. It removes anonymity, but at least you don't have to provide your personal details to everybody on the internet demanding age verification. You provide those details to your trusted identity provider, they provide the claim of your age to the website. With that in place we can easily make beer, liquor, marijuana and tobacco sales on the i…

A much better solution than was suggested by PornHub: > PornHub said that a better solution is to identify users by their device. Fingerprinting is not and should not be the sanctioned way of identifying people. On the engineering side, it is a horrible hack. On the ethical side, it is much worse to ( attempt to) fingerprint since it tells PornHub waaay more than just age.

[deleted]

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#498

Post by femiagbabiaka »

edgyquant wrote: post #485
wakannai wrote: post #328

Multiple issues with this. It starts off with arbitrary definitions of what pornography is ( https://le.utah.gov/~2023/bills/static/SB0287.html ): "nipple of the female breast" You can suck on it when you are a baby, but god forbid you ever take a look at it again before you are married. What's wrong with these people? Even public nudity laws differ from city to city (e.g. in California), so clearly, people aren't al…

Way to regurgitate a tired argument. Kids are addicted to porn before they’re old enough to drive these days and it’s messes them up for life (see: the incel movement.) Something has to be done about corporations that profit off of showing literal children hardcore porn. “Talking to your kids” doesn’t work when multinational corporations are incentivized to addict them for ad revenue.

Blocking access to pornographic websites is the responsibility of parents or other responsible adults absent a federal ID verification system that would enable websites to reliably block kids (similar to S. Korea).

You can justify almost any amount of censorship based on "thinking about the kids". But our society is built for more than just the first 20% of human life. The proliferation of this argument that everything from the internet to IRL bookstores need to be censored to protect children starts from a good place, but it jumped the shark a long time ago.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#499

Post by scarface74 »

nathan_compton wrote: post #465
sophacles wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about: If you don't want your kids to see it, that's on you. Either accept that you are a shitty parent who can't raise children to your satisfaction, or get better at parenting. Don't force consequences on me just because you are incompetent.

I'm against forcing people to provide their ID in order to see pornography. Indeed, I am, if anything, supportive of adults being able to understand and fully experience their erotic lives, as long as no one is harmed, and to do so anonymously where possible. But your attitude is, in a historical context, weird. At basically no point in history has it been the case that the sole responsibility for the well being of c…

I have no desire for “society” to make rules that govern my kids. Especially seeing that between gerrymandering, the electoral college and the fact that each state no matter what the size has two senators means that people who would love to impose their religious beliefs on others have an outsized influence on laws that are passed.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#500

Post by funklute »

mc32 wrote: post #284
berkes wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You describe pornography depicting underage people. I'm sure there's consensus on why that is bad. I was, however, questioning whether minors consuming pornography is (always, and/or provably) bad.

Do you think there is or isn't deleterious effects when children watch misogyny at a young age, what about watching programming that would show the beating of animals, even if animated and just for "fun", or programming that shows being "fat" is undesirable and indulging in bulimia is desirable (what could be wrong with over-eating and then just vomiting excess, right?) No, I think there are things young minds should…

> Do you think there is or isn't deleterious effects when children watch misogyny at a young age, what about watching programming that would show the beating of animals, even if animated and just for "fun", or programming that shows being "fat" is undesirable and indulging in bulimia is desirable (what could be wrong with over-eating and then just vomiting excess, right?)

I think he was asking (and rightly so) what the scientific evidence says, not what someone's opinion is.

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