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Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

newscientist.com

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Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#51

Post by rapnie »

notnaut wrote: post #37
spacephysics wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately many things in western culture that get close to mysticism are disregarded as hallucinations or random neurological firings. Same goes with dreams and such. It’s the ‘religion of science’ defaulting to the ‘god’ of deconstructionism. Just hallucinations, nothing more. I understand why, there’s certainly many things which were once said to be mystic, but ended up less so. However, anyone who has done res…

I’ve done plenty of psychedelics. I have no idea why you would imply dreams and near death experiences are in the same boat, and much further than that, why you’d combine them with the concept of an afterlife. The pineal gland isn’t a third eye. Dreams are blatantly not random neurological firings, but have no inherent relation to death or the concept of life after death at all. Near death experiences are similar. Th…

> the human brain is soooo fucking primed to see patterns and make sense from anything.

Fully agree. I've never done psychedelics, but years ago when overworked and by lack of sleep my mind went into a severe state of hyperassociativity. Though a serious health danger (feeling as if your brain gets cooked) it was a magnificent experience. Everything I saw with my eyes triggered an explosion of associations. I felt as if I could pierce the mysteries of the universe, perceive the future as it unfolded before me, and was sure that a higher entity existed. Until.. it became too much and I needed treatment and medication to bring me back to earth. The brain is a powerful machine.

Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#52

Post by leroy-is-here »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #38
leroy-is-here wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words, transmitted by sound _absolutely_, without a single doubt, can affect the thoughts of an individual. And, of course, horns and loud sounds and noises will also affect the thoughts.

Those affect your thoughts, but don't really change the manner in which you think to the same degree that psychedelics do. I'd grant some exceptions such as a zen student receiving a lesson/koan that drastically changes their thought processes, but I'd argue that the change was already within them and the sound was just the catalyst - the same lesson/koan is unlikely to have similar effects on other people, and certa…

Do you have any reading for me?

Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#53

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

1827163 wrote: post #46
spacephysics wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately many things in western culture that get close to mysticism are disregarded as hallucinations or random neurological firings. Same goes with dreams and such. It’s the ‘religion of science’ defaulting to the ‘god’ of deconstructionism. Just hallucinations, nothing more. I understand why, there’s certainly many things which were once said to be mystic, but ended up less so. However, anyone who has done res…

There shouldn't be anything wrong with having an open mind about such phenomena. While it's very likely that they are of biological origin, to immediately dismiss any other possibilities is closed minded dogmatism.

It's reasonable to dismiss hypotheses that are untestable, provide no predictive power and have questionable evidence to support them. That's not so much about being close-minded, but just a practical methodology. If you accept non-testable hypotheses, then how can you tell whether it was the result of a specific deity or an invisible pink unicorn?

Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#54

Post by jrootabega »

spacephysics wrote: post #5
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #2

> The sensation of moving down a tunnel towards a bright light, reliving past memories and hearing or seeing deceased relatives have all been reported by people from many cultures who have had a brush with death. Sceptics, however, say these experiences could be caused by people hallucinating as they recover in hospital. The way that the default is presented here is interesting. Interpreting the experiences as halluc…

Unfortunately many things in western culture that get close to mysticism are disregarded as hallucinations or random neurological firings. Same goes with dreams and such. It’s the ‘religion of science’ defaulting to the ‘god’ of deconstructionism. Just hallucinations, nothing more. I understand why, there’s certainly many things which were once said to be mystic, but ended up less so. However, anyone who has done res…

The overall phenomenon is not random. Our brain is structured, so processes that are not meaningful can produce results that seem meaningful to our brains. Like wind blowing through wind chimes.

Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#55

Post by spyder »

Qem wrote: post #10
throwmemoney wrote: post #3

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-pPBwFFWz_k Some children can remember exact & verifiable details of their prior life they never could have come to know in this their current child life. These details can be objectively and independently confirmed. Remarkably & quite biologically enigmatic: Some of them have birth marks and birth defects at very same locations as the lethal injury causing their often abrupt and violent…

If reincarnation is real, I guess the afterlife faces a crisis due to the impending demographic crash here. The lines of souls awaiting reincarnation are about to get real long, as lots of people die of old age without people having children to ensure a fast return.

Or Earth is not the only place to be reincarnated. *cue The X-Files music*

Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#56

Post by tmtvl »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #28
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #20

Near-death brain activity and any confirmation of near-death experience does not necessarily imply an afterlife .

I consider that the best argument against any kind of afterlife is the sheer banality of any claimed conversations with ghosts/deceased. I'd imagine that someone that has taken the final(?) journey would have incredible insights to pass on, yet they always just mumble on about something mundane.

Well, you don't know what you've got 'till it's gone, right? Maybe the first thing we start missing is small talk. (Of course, I'm more of a Lisp guy myself)

Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#57

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

leroy-is-here wrote: post #52
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those affect your thoughts, but don't really change the manner in which you think to the same degree that psychedelics do. I'd grant some exceptions such as a zen student receiving a lesson/koan that drastically changes their thought processes, but I'd argue that the change was already within them and the sound was just the catalyst - the same lesson/koan is unlikely to have similar effects on other people, and certa…

Do you have any reading for me?

Why yes, yes I do

https://prirai.github.io/books/unix-koans.html

Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#58

Post by danbruc »

leroy-is-here wrote: post #49
eimrine wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That obviously is true, but you are completely ignoring the argument of the person you are answering to. He told that the brain might be learned using effect of some substance by the same principle when Neurophysiologists observe people with damaged brain and realize what the damaged surface is doing. And you are telling that people without brain damages can be observed by Neurophysiologists as well which is just a t…

I am addressing the original argument. The original premise was mere amusement that such a chemical could exist which could alter the mind. What I’m saying is that there is more than just chemicals which can change your mind. If you say it is obvious that everything you ingest affects you, then what about time? Both of us are clearly ingesting time, it is simply another one of our inputs. And, of course, it is obviou…

Both of us are clearly ingesting time, it is simply another one of our inputs.

We are not ingesting time, we are in a certain sense creating it. We constantly observe the world and it changes over time but just observing the world alone is not enough to perceive time. You have to memorize the current state of the world as you just perceived it and later compare your new perceptions with the memory in order to determine that the world has changed in between.

Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#59

Post by leroy-is-here »

danbruc wrote: post #58
leroy-is-here wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am addressing the original argument. The original premise was mere amusement that such a chemical could exist which could alter the mind. What I’m saying is that there is more than just chemicals which can change your mind. If you say it is obvious that everything you ingest affects you, then what about time? Both of us are clearly ingesting time, it is simply another one of our inputs. And, of course, it is obviou…

Both of us are clearly ingesting time, it is simply another one of our inputs. We are not ingesting time, we are in a certain sense creating it. We constantly observe the world and it changes over time but just observing the world alone is not enough to perceive time. You have to memorize the current state of the world as you just perceived it and later compare your new perceptions with the memory in order to determi…

Observation is inherently a process with time. Without time, observation cannot be done. I’m not sure how observation without time could even be done, with the goal of observation being the measure from one state to another.

Re: Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death experiences

#60

Post by eimrine »

leroy-is-here wrote: post #35
eimrine wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That leads to the outcome that your statement "The science of keeping humans healthy is fairly well researched" is false. Actually it is the least researched field among the most important, in my humble opinion.

No, it doesn’t. Because the study of health and the being of health are separate topics entirely.

> the study of health and the being of health are separate topics entirely

I would rather say that your statements in this particular topic and wise statements per se are separate things entirely and what you have just claimed is not at all.

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