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San Francisco Whole Foods made 560 emergency calls before closing

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Re: San Francisco Whole Foods made 560 emergency calls before closing

#31
post #27

I don’t believe the problem can be solved, at least in full, but instead we have to pick our poison. We must either choose the current dystopian solution, or instead criminalize / institutionalize these people against their will. One hurts the full population. Is the liberal solution honestly any better for the addicts?

It absolutely can be solved. The problem is that SF's landowners have its politics by the balls, which means that policies which could solve homelessness and broader poverty/destitution overnight - like land value taxation with a citizens' dividend - have zero hope of seeing the light of day.

SF ain't the only one, either; this is a statewide, regionwide, and nationwide issue. Only reason it's more pronounced on the West Coast is because of the more temperate weather; rough sleepers end up surviving for another year instead of freezing to death in winter.

Re: San Francisco Whole Foods made 560 emergency calls before closing

#32
post #27

I don’t believe the problem can be solved, at least in full, but instead we have to pick our poison. We must either choose the current dystopian solution, or instead criminalize / institutionalize these people against their will. One hurts the full population. Is the liberal solution honestly any better for the addicts?

It absolutely can be solved. The problem is that SF's landowners have its politics by the balls, which means that policies which could solve homelessness and broader poverty/destitution overnight - like land value taxation with a citizens' dividend - have zero hope of seeing the light of day. SF ain't the only one, either; this is a statewide, regionwide, and nationwide issue. Only reason it's more pronounced on the…

In what world are landowners not hurt the most by SF turning into cyberpunk bedlam?

Re: San Francisco Whole Foods made 560 emergency calls before closing

#33
post #25
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because normal funcitoning people want to conduct commerce and experience a crime free life visiting these corporations, or any other place, within the cities that they live. We should put criminals in jail and mercilessly shame and make fun of people like you that construct some nonsense rationalization for all of us accepting allowing our homes, our towns our streets to turn into shitholes. You are a LOSER and the…

The personal attack in this post is totally unacceptable and clearly a bannable offense on HN. Moreover, this has been a problem for years (see links below). Also, it looks like you've been using HN primarily for ideological battle and that's also a line at which we ban accounts (regardless of the ideology they're battling for). Past explanation about that: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme…

Ok, I'm sorry dang, you're right.

Thanks for the warning.

We need your type of work ethic and desire to maintain a healthy community, along with discipline to be a stickler for enforcement of law and order in public office in some of these cities... they'd be maintained well like Hacker News is maintained well...

And yea, if only we all could just keep our heads down and just code & do software, not worry about politics crime and social issues and be left alone & unaffected by their consequences.. Those were the days not long ago huh dang. I miss them too.

I'll heed your warning and back off the politics posting going forward

Re: San Francisco Whole Foods made 560 emergency calls before closing

#34
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you actually cared you would work to criminalize all drug use, prosecute even minor offenses, and give food to mentally ill people daily. None of that is beyond reach but the voters of SF don't want those things.

Adding yet more criminalization and prosecution is ineffective, as can be seen across the rest of the US; looking at per-capita numbers instead of absolutes, the diversity of interstate drug laws seems to be well-represented in the rankings: http://www.citymayors.com/society/usa-cities-homelessness.ht... The largely-untried approach is to assess why people are being afflicted with mental health issues and why people…

People turn to drugs because they are addictive. Once you start, it's hard to stop, and it can easily lead to drug abuse. Drug abuse and the lifestyle that it leads to will exacerbate mental illness.

The issue is that the US half-asses its drug enforcement policies. Everything is a leaky sieve full of inefficiency. They have a mostly unprotected border with Mexico, that they're too scared to lock down for political reasons. They have drug dealers that they won't arrest, or put in a revolving door policy, because they're afraid of being called evil by the privileged members of NGOs and academia. Investigating, arresting and putting on trial criminals is extremely expensive and inefficient because there's 50 million legal checks to deal with.

Look at Singapore for an example of how an all-out war against drugs can be effective, and produce a safe society. 98% of the citizens of Singapore support those policies because they have some of the safest streets in the world. Their children can safely be out at any time. Why should they let the criminal 0.5% of the population keep them terrified like in America? It should be the other way around. They get criticized by westerners for their use of the death penalty for drug dealers, such as in this short clip with visionary Singaporean PM Lee Kwan Yew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PXAOZwvv04, who handles it admirably.

The US is violent and dangerous because it tries to give as much freedom as possible to its citizens, and protect their constitutional rights to a high degree, even when this comes at a high expense for the rest of society. I am not saying I want this to change, I like diversity of thought and government, and there's something endearing about how different the average American is compared to other nations. This diversity of thought allows us to learn lessons about the effect of policies and culture. For example this is why I like the USA's 2nd amendment and wish to see it protected, even though I wouldn't want everyone to be armed in my country.

Re: San Francisco Whole Foods made 560 emergency calls before closing

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding yet more criminalization and prosecution is ineffective, as can be seen across the rest of the US; looking at per-capita numbers instead of absolutes, the diversity of interstate drug laws seems to be well-represented in the rankings: http://www.citymayors.com/society/usa-cities-homelessness.ht... The largely-untried approach is to assess why people are being afflicted with mental health issues and why people…

People turn to drugs because they are addictive. Once you start, it's hard to stop, and it can easily lead to drug abuse. Drug abuse and the lifestyle that it leads to will exacerbate mental illness. The issue is that the US half-asses its drug enforcement policies. Everything is a leaky sieve full of inefficiency. They have a mostly unprotected border with Mexico, that they're too scared to lock down for political r…

People don’t turn to drugs because they’re addictive (and many aren’t). They turn to them because they’re fun and because they help relieve pain and anxiety as well as other mental issues.

Please don’t turn more countries into police states, it’s really not required to fight drug abuse.

There are many nice places that have liberal drug laws(Netherlands, Switzerland), clearly authoritarian state control is not required.

The US is not violent because it grants a lot of freedoms(which tbh, it really doesn’t). It’s violent because the ruling class don’t give a shit about poor people

Re: San Francisco Whole Foods made 560 emergency calls before closing

#36
post #6

That block (corner of 8th and Market) is particularly nasty. What I find even more perplexing than the city doing nothing is how the large tech companies and their brood that work right next door tolerate it. For those that work in those offices, do you just get bused in everyday, eat all your meals at the cafeteria, and get bused back out, observing the outside world like a snow globe? How do you reconcile the money…

you should try living in a big city in a 3rd world country, richer people have to survive too and also feel helpless to do something about this kind of thing

Re: San Francisco Whole Foods made 560 emergency calls before closing

#37
post #27

I don’t believe the problem can be solved, at least in full, but instead we have to pick our poison. We must either choose the current dystopian solution, or instead criminalize / institutionalize these people against their will. One hurts the full population. Is the liberal solution honestly any better for the addicts?

It absolutely can be solved. The problem is that SF's landowners have its politics by the balls, which means that policies which could solve homelessness and broader poverty/destitution overnight - like land value taxation with a citizens' dividend - have zero hope of seeing the light of day. SF ain't the only one, either; this is a statewide, regionwide, and nationwide issue. Only reason it's more pronounced on the…

So you think the liberalism in sf is helping these people and we need more of it? Or do you think the liberalism in sf we have now is not the right variant?

Re: San Francisco Whole Foods made 560 emergency calls before closing

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding yet more criminalization and prosecution is ineffective, as can be seen across the rest of the US; looking at per-capita numbers instead of absolutes, the diversity of interstate drug laws seems to be well-represented in the rankings: http://www.citymayors.com/society/usa-cities-homelessness.ht... The largely-untried approach is to assess why people are being afflicted with mental health issues and why people…

People turn to drugs because they are addictive. Once you start, it's hard to stop, and it can easily lead to drug abuse. Drug abuse and the lifestyle that it leads to will exacerbate mental illness. The issue is that the US half-asses its drug enforcement policies. Everything is a leaky sieve full of inefficiency. They have a mostly unprotected border with Mexico, that they're too scared to lock down for political r…

Literally ignoring the most basic facts about this just to push an ideology. Wack.

Re: San Francisco Whole Foods made 560 emergency calls before closing

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding yet more criminalization and prosecution is ineffective, as can be seen across the rest of the US; looking at per-capita numbers instead of absolutes, the diversity of interstate drug laws seems to be well-represented in the rankings: http://www.citymayors.com/society/usa-cities-homelessness.ht... The largely-untried approach is to assess why people are being afflicted with mental health issues and why people…

People turn to drugs because they are addictive. Once you start, it's hard to stop, and it can easily lead to drug abuse. Drug abuse and the lifestyle that it leads to will exacerbate mental illness. The issue is that the US half-asses its drug enforcement policies. Everything is a leaky sieve full of inefficiency. They have a mostly unprotected border with Mexico, that they're too scared to lock down for political r…

> People turn to drugs because they are addictive.

People stay on drugs because those drugs are addictive. That says nothing about why they felt inclined to start using drugs in the first place - that underlying cause being "I'm broke and starving and freezing and can't afford actual treatment for the illnesses/injuries I'm racking up and I need something to take the edge off".

> Look at Singapore for an example of how an all-out war against drugs can be effective, and produce a safe society.

There are all sorts of confounding variables in that equation, chief among them being private land ownership being basically nonexistent; 80% of Singaporeans live in government-subsidized flats. Even this hasn't solved homelessness in Singapore, either.

> The US is violent and dangerous because it tries to give as much freedom as possible to its citizens

The US is violent and dangerous becuase its socioeconomic safety nets and mental healthcare systems are absolute dumpster fires compared to pretty much every other "developed" country.

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