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The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

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Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#81

Post by rcxdude »

voz_ wrote: post #44
mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science doesn't have some super clear, strict, reductive definition like the "scientific method" you may have been taught in school. The idea that all science must make or test predictions is just based on an old misinterpretation of the philosophy of Karl Popper, mainly by physicists. The only real general requirement I think you can make is that all science involves some level of interrogation and study of the phys…

This is a nonsense definition. Science absolutely must follow the scientific method. What you are talking about is natural philosophy and protosciences - its the difference between alchemy and chemistry - which is all the difference in the world.

I promise you actual scientists spend far less time thinking about the scientific method and the philosophy of science than their cheerleaders do.

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#82

Post by hammyhavoc »

fouc wrote: post #77
jcranmer wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mayan calendrical system is the most complex to have ever been used. To write a full date in a Classical Mayan site, you need to include: * The current date in the 365-day solar calendar (18 months of 20 days + 5 extracalendrical days) * The current date in the 260-day ritual calendar (13 "months" of 20 days, the months don't work like regular months we're used to) * The "long count" date, i.e., the number of day…

I really wonder what kind of organizational structure the Mayan astrologers had in order to develop and propagate this knowledge in their society over generations. Getting vibes of Neal Stephenson's Anathem.

Holy shit. Thank you for bringing this up, I'd wondered for ~15 years what my uncle was reading at his desk one time when I visited, but only ever remembered the cover.

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#83

Post by rafark »

jcranmer wrote: post #71
fjfaase wrote: post #3

This implies that the Mayan must have been recording the positions of the planets with great accuracy over a rather long period of time, probably spanning several generations.

The Mayan calendrical system is the most complex to have ever been used. To write a full date in a Classical Mayan site, you need to include: * The current date in the 365-day solar calendar (18 months of 20 days + 5 extracalendrical days) * The current date in the 260-day ritual calendar (13 "months" of 20 days, the months don't work like regular months we're used to) * The "long count" date, i.e., the number of day…

This reminds me of the story of Bartolomé Arrazola.

He was captured by the Mayans in the jungles of Guatemala:

“[...] Then an idea flourished that he considered worthy of his talent, his universal culture and his arduous knowledge of Aristotle. He recalled that that day a total eclipse of the sun was expected. And he decided, in his innermost thoughts, to use that knowledge to deceive his oppressors and save his own life.

“If you kill me,” he said, “I can make the sun darken in its height.”

The natives stared at him and Bartholomew noticed the disbelief in their Eyes. He saw that a small council had formed, and so he waited in confidence, though not without some disdain.

Two hours later, the heart of Brother Bartolomé Arrazola dripped its vehement blood on the sacrificial stone (bright under the opaque light of the eclipsed sun), while one of the natives without any inflection of voice, without hurry, recited one by one the infinite dates of solar and lunar eclipses. All of which the astronomers of the Mayan community had foreseen and written down in their codices, without the valuable help of Aristotle.”

https://spanishtextstranslated.wordpress.com/augusto-monterr...

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#84

Post by hammyhavoc »

eru wrote: post #43
sammalloy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the light pollution got really bad where I live due to development, provided it wasn’t cloudy, I could see the Milky Way every night for about 15 years. Now, it’s gone due to lax rules and regulations due to commercial security light fixtures which throw light in all direction at night to deter thieves. It’s pretty upsetting, but even worse, most people I talk to don’t even notice it’s gone. That’s almost more…

Well, I've never seen the milky way in the sky with my own eyes.

It's one of the highlights of my life, and it's been about fifteen years since.

If you stare up long enough, you notice the rotation of the Earth with the cosmos seemingly revolving around you. And fuck me, you'll stare up long enough.

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#85

Post by waboremo »

eru wrote: post #49
api wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of doing the whole hell thing, which God decided was kind of harsh, they just moved us into a shitty timeline run by hack writers. It's kind of like what's done with a show that somehow hasn't been cancelled yet but where all the good writers and a few of the lead actors have moved on. Their ideas are shit like: "I've got it! Let's make Donald Trump President! Then we'll have Donald Trump and the MyPillow guy…

Wider your horizon a bit. By and large, the world is getting better and better for more and more people. To take your first example: American political theatre is small fry compared to billions lifting themselves out of abject poverty.

I would argue that it's imperative you should also widen your horizon and recognize you are viewing human history in too narrow of a lens (mostly post-victorian era).

The poverty statistic is one that gets thrown around a lot, but it's abysmally low still, and due to how our modern societies place far greater importance on money than any civilization before, this paints a much darker picture of our current timeline. This wealth inequality is also unavoidable, you cannot relocate elsewhere and forage, that land is already taken up by a corporation.

One might believe all civilizations were just as unequal, but they really weren't. Those that were restricted by land had far greater levels of inequality than those by labor[1]. This is crucial because we have created a modern hell, in which no amount of labor will give you wealth, you need land to accumulate wealth and most people do not have that when we are still judging "poverty" based on "$1.25". We make ourselves feel better about our modern life, but have we really advanced past dancing for our superiors' entertainment?

Sometimes when this is discussed, people might feel this is an ungrateful perspective, but I argue the opposite: you can more vividly appreciate our ancestors and their lives for what you do not know of them, and to demand better of our lives instead of settling for these abysmal statistics.

[1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/ab...

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#86

Post by aledalgrande »

dmbche wrote: post #58
aledalgrande wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn, nothing in Vancouver eh

You can look around or call local park services, I'm seeing that Mont-Megantic, an observatory with federally peotected sky, isn't on their map. I'll look for a canadian ressource (for myself too!) Edit: I'm wrong, Mont-Megantic is the first International Dark Sky Reserve - they worked to get it protected federally because they research telescope design. Dang - I think they are quite rare. Maybe you can send an email…

https://darksitefinder.com/maps/world.html

I just found this, shows light pollution. Crazy how the East is much worse. Also Alberta?!?

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#87

Post by tough »

voz_ wrote: post #75
yadingus wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no definition of it "in my mind" Where do you think definitions reside?

Ask Plato

The concept of where definitions reside is a philosophical question that has been debated for centuries. One prominent view is that definitions exist in a realm of abstract objects, separate from the physical world, as argued by Plato in his theory of Forms. However, other philosophers have proposed different views, such as the idea that definitions are constructed through language and human understanding. Ultimately, the nature of definitions is a complex and contested topic in philosophy.

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#88

Post by samplatt »

hammyhavoc wrote: post #82
fouc wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wonder what kind of organizational structure the Mayan astrologers had in order to develop and propagate this knowledge in their society over generations. Getting vibes of Neal Stephenson's Anathem.

Holy shit. Thank you for bringing this up, I'd wondered for ~15 years what my uncle was reading at his desk one time when I visited, but only ever remembered the cover.

Yep, it takes about 15 years to read Anathem, so that tracks.

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#89

Post by dmbche »

aledalgrande wrote: post #86
dmbche wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can look around or call local park services, I'm seeing that Mont-Megantic, an observatory with federally peotected sky, isn't on their map. I'll look for a canadian ressource (for myself too!) Edit: I'm wrong, Mont-Megantic is the first International Dark Sky Reserve - they worked to get it protected federally because they research telescope design. Dang - I think they are quite rare. Maybe you can send an email…

https://darksitefinder.com/maps/world.html I just found this, shows light pollution. Crazy how the East is much worse. Also Alberta?!?

That's nuts!!

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#90

Post by Dylan16807 »

ssalka wrote: post #15

Ok, so when is the actual end of the world if not 2012?

The old one didn't say the end of the world was 2012 either. It was just the date going from 0.0.0.0.12.19.19.17.19 to 0.0.0.0.13.0.0.0.0

And there exist Mayan documents talking about dates that are still in the future!

The rumor was just because the previous world supposedly ended after that amount of time, with the current world being the fourth, but it was specifically not supposed to happen to this one.

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