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Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

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Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#201

Post by willio58 »

meghan_rain wrote: post #184

> and help us achieve our climate goals There are 90 million Germans. Even if they all stopped doing all non-work-related travels immediately, it wouldn't push the needle thanks to China and India.

I'm always confused by this. Climate change is inherently a global issue. It will take progress by _every_ country, not just those with the highest populations. Blaming China and India does no good to help the planet. We should instead push forward progress wherever we can get it and encourage technological progress, market changes, and regulation in this area.

People in India and China hate pollution just as much as the rest of us, they've just been forced by their governments to endure it for the sake of growth. India last year banned single-use plastics. Few other countries have made those sorts of sweeping regulations.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#202

Post by inferiorhuman »

wpietri wrote: post #178
TulliusCicero wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The new ticket is an excellent example of when national government can be superior to more local government: when the national government forces coordination to solve fragmentation problems, where local agencies lacked the... motivation to solve things on their own. On a technical level, it was always possible for different transit agencies to cooperate to simplify things for consumers, but they didn't, and…

Which reminds me to give a shout-out to the Clipper card. The SF Bay Area really did the right thing here. 24 different systems, all of which use the same card: https://www.clippercard.com/ClipperWeb/where-to-use.html And they have now expanded that card-based system to include a mobile app, Google Pay, and Apple Pay, so now I just tap my phone and I'm all set.

  The SF Bay Area really did the right thing here.
No, no they really didn't. They spent millions rebranding it, there is (was?) a huge lag between adding value and posting the value depending on how you added value. The original card readers were incredibly unreliable, and because Clipper/TransLink did absolutely nothing to unify* the fare structure across the twenty-four different systems you could be set up for a nasty encounter with a pop cop because you couldn't tag on or get charged the max fare when you can't tap off. Been there, done that.

BART did their best to make a fantastic mess too and, at least according to their web site, they still only sell paper tickets at SFO. For whatever reason the three other vendors at SFO do sell plastic cards. Because three additional vendors isn't confusing at all.

* Some systems are flat rate (Muni, Golden Gate Ferry, VTA), some are zone based (Caltrain, Golden Gate Transit, Marin Transit), and some are distance based (BART), SamTrans has a flat rate depending on the type of bus you're on. Some systems are proof of payment (Muni), some use turnstiles (BART), some are partially proof-of-payment (AC Transit). And some (AC Transit, Muni) still maintain their own proprietary mobile payment systems. It's still a fucking mess.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#203

Post by jtvjan »

bombcar wrote: post #157
ghaff wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for visitors who may not even speak the primary language, public transit is awful in most places in terms of onboarding jet lagged visitors. Apparently no one does UX trials of people who have zero familiarity with the system and don't speak the language--though at least they maybe accommodate major Western languages. But, in general, it's pretty awful and you at least should do some research in advance.

Every transit system should have a “tourist day pass” that is moderately expensive but allows you to use anything for 24 hours or so.

I think having tickets at all is antiquated. In the Netherlands, there are terminals at the stations you tap your bank card against to "check in". When you get off, you tap it again at that station and your card gets charged. Sometimes the conductor comes around with a device to make sure people have checked in.

If you don't want your travel to be associated with your bank account, you can get a chip card which can be topped up using cash.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#204

Post by lispm »

ipaddr wrote: post #195
lispm wrote: post #190

Nice features here in Hamburg: Subscription tickets for Hamburg which cost more than 49€ are now automatically reduced to 49€ and are changed to a Deutschlandticket. Employer subsidized Deutschlandtickets can be reduced upto 50% for the employee. Kids from low-income families get the Deutschlandticket for free. Students can upgrade their public transport ticket for monthly 18 Euros... School children pay 19 Euros mon…

No senior discounts? How are older people viewed in Germany?

The tickets for seniors were more expensive than 49€. They all have been reduced to 49€.

People with low-income (incl. seniors with low income) have a reduced price.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#205

Post by panick21_ »

woodpanel wrote: post #60

As some comments here mention uncomfortable means of buying tickets across German transportation systems: I’ve been working on multiple software projects that tried to solve it and I can tell you that the reason is not sinister but rather that each system is funded locally. Which means it is subsidized locally and the need to cross those boundaries was always a luxury issue (by people like us - the E-Mail caste). Eve…

Its kind of ridiculous to call it a luxury issue. Its a luxury issue if you make it one. In Switzerland 85 year old grandmothers travel between cities to go for light walks. 15 year olds go to football tournaments in other cities.

Claiming that only some elite cast of digital nomads profits from it is utterly ridiculous. In Switzerland city to city travel is more common with trains then with cars, and a huge part of the population does it.

> but the service quality itself will surely deteriorate by this measure

If the government actually correctly invests in it then it doesn't actually, specially not long term. If anything it leads to more regular more frequent service on many routes.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#206

Post by brd529 »

calaphos wrote: post #68
bahnkenner wrote: post #43

The biggest advantage of the new Germany-wide ticket is not the price, but rather that it simplifies things. This is a map of German public transit companies: [0]. I've heard the current fractured system be compared to the Holy Roman Empire. Every little region has its own ticketing system. If you arrive in a new city, you have to figure out how to buy local transit tickets, often with quite complicated rules (e.g.,…

For regular commuters the price is a big deal. Not only where tickets crossing multiple zones complicated to get but also unreasonably expensive (~200Eur/Month). In contrast the 49 Euros is less expensive than (almost?) any single zone monthly ticket out there.

Monthly train pass on New Jersey Transit, LIRR and Metro North can get to above $300 once you are 20 miles from NYC.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#207

Post by Xeoncross »

willio58 wrote: post #192

As an American I am increasingly jealous of European countries and their public transport (among other things cough health care cough gun control). It feels like the only way we will ever get there as a country is one state at a time, and even then you see projects like California's high-speed rail that's massively over-budget and overdue. At least the blue states seem to _get_ it, meanwhile those who live in red or…

As soon as we give up our over-sized personal income and pay more taxes we'll be able to have more public infrastructure.

The issue seems to be people don't like the idea of only keeping 50% (or less) of their income + making 50% less to begin with. Most people that work at big tech get their big salaries because the companies profit in data-mining ways that would be more regulated in Europe.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#208

Post by willio58 »

water554 wrote: post #200
willio58 wrote: post #192

As an American I am increasingly jealous of European countries and their public transport (among other things cough health care cough gun control). It feels like the only way we will ever get there as a country is one state at a time, and even then you see projects like California's high-speed rail that's massively over-budget and overdue. At least the blue states seem to _get_ it, meanwhile those who live in red or…

[flagged]

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/do-guns-m...

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/199...

To be honest, I don't really care if you have a pistol or a shotgun even. I don't want assault rifles to be easily accessible by people who want to murder children, LTBTQ people, or whoever else is deemed each week to deserve a mass murder.

I say ban all guns, or at least the guns that are designed to murder mass amounts of people.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#209

Post by ghaff »

Symbiote wrote: post #194
ghaff wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just in Amsterdam. One of our locals there said that, although there's an ongoing switch to just tapping contactless credit cards, he advised just getting a contactless transit chip card because even if it cost a few dollar more it would more reliably work everywhere. Things have improved in most places over time but it can still be confusing for the occasional visitor. I remember at some point pre-pandemic I w…

The UK has since simplified that into one ticket, possibly also a receipt of you ask for it. Prior to this, the ticket and seat reservation were seperate bit of paper.

Yeah, it seemed better last time I was traveling there as I recall.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#210

Post by Moldoteck »

admax88qqq wrote: post #105

We need Uber for Public Transit. Enter you destination and it tells you which bus to get on in real time, when to transfer and deducts payment automatically at the end of your trip. The Uber experience on transit would make lots never riders and occasional riders use transit more often. The mental load is a lot of some people at the end of the day, driving is just easier.

It's overcomplicated. Take swiss by example. You turn on gps, press a button, take any transport you like, even boats. When you are done, press the button again and it calculates final price. It's called easyride. In theory you can avoid pressing the second time, I've read the app understands anyway that you are no longer in transport and will not charge you
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