Vacations in the Soviet Union • Hacker News Board

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#221

Post by OkayPhysicist » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:28 PM UTC

bequanna wrote: post #175

beepbooptheory wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Euro-socialism is what most of those kids want, whether they are aware of putting it in those terms or not. The culture wars seem to dictate that there are huge contingents of tankies among the youth, but that doesn't really seem to be the case on the ground (i.e. not on Twitter). The DSA, the biggest, by far, left-org in the US appears, at least to me, to be pushing a platform indistinguishable from a Euro m…

European socialism isn't bad. But how does it work when you have such varied cultures like the US? Outside of some existential threat like war, it doesn't seem at all possible for everyone in the US to start rowing in the same direction.

What about a "varied culture" prevents a nationalization of the health insurance industry? It's about presentation: If pitched as "We're offering better health insurance at a lower price than your existing plan" the vast majority of people would be on board.

It would take a political miracle because of our thoroughly corrupted political system, but once it existed as an option, I have no doubt that trying to kill it would be political suicide. The problem is that our far right party is A-Ok with working class people going broke from healthcare costs, and poor people just dying, and our center-right party has pretty much adopted a platform of "We won't make things any worse".

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#222

Post by yucatansunshine » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:28 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #209

r00fus wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many many cultures do not share the US's "unfettered freedom of speech". Even within the US, we talk a big game but - have you ever felt it wise to "exercise free speech" with law enforcement? So yeah, it's complicated.

> Even within the US, we talk a big game but - have you ever felt it wise to "exercise free speech" with law enforcement? Uhhhh... we literally just had an entire summer of people shutting down cities to voice their frustration over police. My personal unwillingness to start cursing out every cop I see is not actually a good litmus test for my freedom of speech.

how many protestors got ran over by said police (and the reason for why these protests happened in the first place) is a good litmus test though

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#223

Post by 62951413 » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:29 PM UTC

bequanna wrote: post #165

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #103

There are a bunch of zoomers out there who un-ironically claim Communism is the ideal way of life. I've worked with some of them. I still can't fathom what's going on in their brains.

One explanation I've found pretty accurate: When the young start to become educated (late teens, early 20's) they face the realization that they will be entering the world on the bottom of the economic totem pole. There are two primary responses to this: 1. Realize that the real world is competitive and difficult and much self-improvement and hard work will be needed to thrive. These people put their heads down and g…

There were an estimated 7 to 12 million casualties during the war, mostly civilians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Civil_War).

A total of 1,053,829 people died in the Gulag not including labor colonies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet...).

The Communists didn't prey in some vaguely psychological sense, they physically exterminated anyone who disagreed.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#224

Post by CalChris » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:30 PM UTC

I worked for Olivetti in Milan and Ivrea the mid/late 80s. In particular, that was before the wall came down.

When I landed at Malpensa in Milan for the first time, I noticed there was an Aeroflot airliner parked on the tarmac. This seemed odd to me. Why would someone want to fly from Milan to the USSR?

Olivetti was a massive (at the time) paternal Italian company. It had a department called Gestione Varie, miscellaneous management, which handled various things including vacations and sports programs for Olivetti employees. Among the many vacation packages offered were very reasonably priced summer vacations to Leningrad.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#225

Post by jnsaff2 » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:31 PM UTC

martythemaniak wrote: post #73

EarthIsHome wrote: post #2

Happy May Day! Here's a Twitter thread [0] that has excerpts/paraphrases from an old Soviet pamphlet called "How Soviet Workers Spend Their Leisure." (rolled up version [1]) You can find a scanned version of the pamphlet here [2]. There were many of these pamphlets published. One day I will scan them and post them. There was one on Waterways & Transport in the USSR, one about Soviet theater, one about the food indust…

As always, the gap between reality and propaganda is hilarious. Soviet workers and their colonized subjects spent their leisure time filling in for the massive failures of the state to provide anything resembling their promises. Some excerpts from my childhood: * Family outing to the fields to harvest carrots to pickle for the winter. This would be bartered with other families who went to harvest other veggies, so th…

Yeah. I remember my parents getting a permit to vacation by the Black Sea like once. My grandfather went to Egypt once. The vacations even within the soviets were super scarce experiences and going to the west was only possible for a choir trip or something like that after being vetted by the kgb for your flight risk.

There were trips to leningrad or moscow but even those had years between them.

So yea, most vacations were helping out at grandparents farm. And reading books during rainy days.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#226

Post by cpursley » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:31 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #209

r00fus wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many many cultures do not share the US's "unfettered freedom of speech". Even within the US, we talk a big game but - have you ever felt it wise to "exercise free speech" with law enforcement? So yeah, it's complicated.

> Even within the US, we talk a big game but - have you ever felt it wise to "exercise free speech" with law enforcement? Uhhhh... we literally just had an entire summer of people shutting down cities to voice their frustration over police. My personal unwillingness to start cursing out every cop I see is not actually a good litmus test for my freedom of speech.

[flagged]

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#227

Post by teh64 » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:32 PM UTC

bequanna wrote: post #175

beepbooptheory wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Euro-socialism is what most of those kids want, whether they are aware of putting it in those terms or not. The culture wars seem to dictate that there are huge contingents of tankies among the youth, but that doesn't really seem to be the case on the ground (i.e. not on Twitter). The DSA, the biggest, by far, left-org in the US appears, at least to me, to be pushing a platform indistinguishable from a Euro m…

European socialism isn't bad. But how does it work when you have such varied cultures like the US? Outside of some existential threat like war, it doesn't seem at all possible for everyone in the US to start rowing in the same direction.

Europe, of course, being a totally homogenous culture? This argument that America is too culturally diverse or too big for something to work has got to be the most uninformed, "the world consists of america and other", ever.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#228

Post by janalsncm » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:32 PM UTC

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #117

samstave wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much amazing beauty in the world, including the largest country on the planet, Russia - and then especially areas in China, which I would LOVE to visit, but the governments of each country kinda suck, so its not a place I'll likely go (imagine mtn biking through some of the amazing landscapes of either) With that said, I'd love to hear Lex Fridman's opinion on all of this.

It's not difficult to visit China (except that you'll probably have to apply for a visa, but Chinese people have to do that to visit Western countries too). You won't experience much about the government while there. Police aren't really that present in public. Border control is like any other country. The only issue you're likely to run into is the Great Firewall, for which you can just install a VPN before arriving…

American police are actually much more scary tbh. Physically, many Chinese cops are fairly scrawny and usually don’t carry guns, maybe just handcuffs and a baton. Their main weapon is their body camera. Sometimes they do carry guns but it’s not the norm imo.

I will add one more aspect is the almost complete absence of traffic cops. A lot of the most dangerous situations with cops in the US have been at traffic stops. But in China there are cameras that send out tickets automatically. I’m sure there are due process concerns with that implementation, but there is also a zero percent chance you will be killed by police at a traffic stop.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#229

Post by cpursley » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:32 PM UTC

FpUser wrote: post #97

>"The Soviet Union's approach to paid time off (PTO) was unique, as it not only provided workers with time off but also determined how they spent it" Utter bullshit. I was able to travel to every part of USSR (except of course restricted areas and abroad) during my vacation time without any problems. USSR had gobbles of big problems and general lack of freedom but vacations were not part. As a matter of fact I spent…

Yep, my wife grew up in the USSR and enjoyed more and longer vacations (up to two months, and at least one) than we ever did as an upper middle class American family.

Disclosure: this is no endorsement of the Soviet-style systems. But my wife had a much better childhood then the anti-Soviet would have you believe.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#230

Post by vkou » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:32 PM UTC

bequanna wrote: post #165

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #103

There are a bunch of zoomers out there who un-ironically claim Communism is the ideal way of life. I've worked with some of them. I still can't fathom what's going on in their brains.

One explanation I've found pretty accurate: When the young start to become educated (late teens, early 20's) they face the realization that they will be entering the world on the bottom of the economic totem pole. There are two primary responses to this: 1. Realize that the real world is competitive and difficult and much self-improvement and hard work will be needed to thrive. These people put their heads down and g…

Meanwhile, capitalism preys on people who are convinced that if it weren't for the moochers and layabouts and undeserving holding them back, they would have a life of wealth and respect.

Joe the Plumber was the poster child for this, a decade ago.