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Geoffrey Hinton leaves Google and warns of danger ahead

nytimes.com

291–300 of 1001 posts

Re: Geoffrey Hinton leaves Google and warns of danger ahead

#291
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>with things like cognitive architecture etc. That part is doing a LOT of very heavy lifting in a story that otherwise hangs together. The problem is that we are nowhere near such a thing. These LLM and generative systems produce very impressive results. So does a mirror and a camera (to those who have never seen one). What we have is enormous vector engines that can transform one output into another that is most st…

> The problem is that we are nowhere near such a thing. How are you certain of this?

We can be certain of this by 1) looking at the structure of these engines, 2) looking at the kinds of errors that they make, and 3) looking at their learning methods.

The engines are basically indexes of common associations, maps of frequency of occurrence. Regurgitating a bunch of stuff that has a high correlation to your input is NOT intelligence, it is the result of having an insanely large map. This can often produce impressive and useful results, but it is not intelligence or wielding concepts.

For errors, the image generators provide some of the best illustrations. They produce images most associated with the inputs. One error illustrates this very well, asked to produce an image of a woman sitting on a sailboat, the bikini-clad woman looks great, until you see it — her face and torso are facing mostly towards the camera, but also, her buttocks are facing the camera and legs sitting pointing away from us. No intelligent person or concept-wielding "AI" would produce such an error - it'd know the relationships with head, torso, buttocks and legs. These don't. Another telling type of error is when asked to produce an image of Person X on a new background, when the training set had only a handful of images of Person X. It cannot do it - it returns essentially one of the full training images, with no new background. There is obviously zero concept of what a person is, or what the boundaries of a human shape would be. They can only produce these results with hundreds of thousands of images, so what is built up is the set of things that match or don't match the label (e.g., "astronaut" or "Barack Obama".), so that the actual images are statistically separated from the thousands of backgrounds.

Which brings us to how they learn. Intelligent beings from worms to humans learn and abstract on incredibly small data sets. By the time a child can use a crayon, having seen only hundreds of humans, s/he can separate out what is a human from the background (might not make a good drawing yet, but knows the difference). Show a child a single new thing, and s/he will separate it from the background immediately. In contrast, these LLMs and GANs require input of nearly the entire corpus of human knowledge, and can only some of the time output something resembling the right thing.

It is entirely different from intelligence (which is not to say it isn't often useful). But the more I learn about how they work and are built, the less I'm worried about this entire generation of machines. It is no more cause for worry than an observation 25 years ago that Google could do the work of 10000 librarian person-hours in 0.83 seconds. Great stuff, changes values of some types of work, but not an existential threat.

Re: Geoffrey Hinton leaves Google and warns of danger ahead

#292
My memory fails me as I read the story many years ago, and sorry already for the spoilers, but I think it's from a Philip K. Dick book. Maybe somebody here will recognize the plot and know which one it his.

A Computer Science Researcher discovers AGI by accident and builds a brain that almost kills him. Spends the rest of his sad days, researching scientific articles and journal publications, that hint they are following a similar path that led to the discovery, so he can intervene on time.

Edit: I think it is The Great Automatic Grammatizator written by British author Roald Dahl.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Automatic_Grammatiza...

"... A mechanically-minded man reasons that the rules of grammar are fixed by certain, almost mathematical principles. By exploiting this idea, he is able to create a mammoth machine that can write a prize-winning novel in roughly fifteen minutes. The story ends on a fearful note, as more and more of the world's writers are forced into licensing their names—and all hope of human creativity—to the machine..."

Edit 2: Found it! Had to go back to my 20,000 book library. :-)

It's "Dial F for Frankenstein" by Arthur C. Clarke. A telephone engineer accidentally creates a global AI by connecting telephone systems around the world. The AI becomes sentient and takes control of global communication systems. The protagonist manages to shut down the AI, but the story ends with him remaining vigilant, monitoring the news for any signs that someone else might inadvertently create a similar AI, so he can stop it from happening again.

First published in Playboy; - https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?315611

Re: Geoffrey Hinton leaves Google and warns of danger ahead

#293
post #34
post #3

Hinton responded on Twitter: https://twitter.com/geoffreyhinton/status/165299357072121037...

Saving a click, because this basically invalidates the NYT headline: > In the NYT today, Cade Metz implies that I left Google so that I could criticize Google. Actually, I left so that I could talk about the dangers of AI without considering how this impacts Google. Google has acted very responsibly.

Nah it’s just circular semantic wank. Criticize does not need to be interpreted through negative emotions.

He left Google because he would not be allowed to work there will pooping in the roadmap they’re putting together to counter OpenAI.

STEM minded folks need to eat their own science; the emotional response to certain language is not evenly distributed. It’s thought policing af to take your reaction to “criticize” as a universal one.

Re: Geoffrey Hinton leaves Google and warns of danger ahead

#294
post #222
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is such a blurry line for autonomous munitions. militaries used dumb imprecise munitions for decades - then precision weapons. A2A missiles used to lock on radar signature leading to huge risks related to accidentally shooting airliners/friendly craft. Now antiship missiles dynamically select their target over 300km away to maximize the chance of hitting a big ship. During the war on terror, ML models would dec…

The line already drawn, no indiscriminate killings of civilians, all this technology only minimizes civilian suffering, furthermore it is more humane to use terminators instead of 20 years olds clearing buildings and autonomous tanks/tracks driving though IEDs filled streets. War is deeply in human nature, it is not going away, question is; how to make it more humane and minimize indiscriminate killings and suffering…

> War is deeply in human nature, it is not going away

This is:

* Not a consensus view

* Impossible to prove with regard to the future nature of humanity

* Not the working assumption for those of us innovating around peacetime tech

Re: Geoffrey Hinton leaves Google and warns of danger ahead

#295

We are barely scraping the surface when it comes to understanding the future dangers of AI. Geoffrey Hinton is uniquely positioned to point out where the dangers are, and from what I've gleaned from interviews one of his main concerns atm is the use of AI in the military: fully autonomous military robots might not be possible to curtail. The tried and tested method is international agreements. The current focus on ar…

International treaties can hold to an extent. The greatest damage will be its internal use. Where countries can tell others to 'not interfere' in local business. Each country will run its own nefarious program and it will take a violent revolution to overthrow governments - and the next one will pick up the AI baton where the previous one left with a slogan of 'making sure no one does what the previous govt did'. So instead of an international global AI issue we will have strong national AI abuse. In either case, democracy will be put under strain.

Re: Geoffrey Hinton leaves Google and warns of danger ahead

#296
post #52

> the average person will not be able to know what is true anymore We barely held things together as society without AI unleashing cognitive noise at industrial scale. Somehow we must find ways to re-channel the potential of digital technology for the betterment of society, not its annihilation.

Between Social Media, Cambridge Analytica, the Climate Crisis, Pandemic and (mostly) Russian disinfo, etc, it is already the case that most people have a really hard time knowing what is true. I don't claim to have much foresight, but an online world where truly and obviously nothing can be trusted might be a good thing. Because when AI generated content looks and feels the same as real content, nothing is to be trus…

The problem is, when no one trusts anything, it makes room for men who promise everything, but can deliver nothing. We call them "dictators" and "authoritarians", but others call them "strong men" because they are envied by those who seek power. If you look around the world, you can see authoritarian movements rising, especially here in the USA.

Re: Geoffrey Hinton leaves Google and warns of danger ahead

#297
The switch that would connect, all at once, all of the monster computing machines of all the populated planets in the universe -- ninety-six billion planets -- into the supercircuit that would connect them all into one supercalculator, one cybernetics machine that would combine all the knowledge of all the galaxies.

Dwar Reyn spoke briefly to the watching and listening trillions. Then after a moment's silence he said, "Now, Dwar Ev." Dwar Ev threw the switch. There was a mighty hum, the surge of power from ninety-six billion planets. Lights flashed and quieted along the miles-long panel. Dwar Ev stepped back and drew a deep breath.

"The honor of asking the first question is yours, Dwar Reyn." "Thank you," said Dwar Reyn. "It shall be a question which no single cybernetics machine has been able to answer." He turned to face the machine. "Is there a God?" The mighty voice answered without hesitation, without the clicking of a single relay. "Yes, now there is a God." Sudden fear flashed on the face of Dwar Ev. He leaped to grab the switch. A bolt of lightning from the cloudless sky struck him down and fused the switch shut.

     (Fredric Brown, "Answer")

Re: Geoffrey Hinton leaves Google and warns of danger ahead

#298
post #107

I used to be fairly unconcerned about AI being dangerous. But part of the Yudkowsky interview on Lex Fridman 's podcast changed my mind. The disconnect for me is that Yudkowsky posits that the AIs will be fully "alive", thinking millions of times faster than humans and that there will be millions of them. This is too big of a speculative leap for me. What I can fairly easily imagine in the next few years with improve…

> Take the perspective of one of these things. You think 100 times faster than a person. That means that if it takes 30 seconds for a user to respond or to give you your next instruction, you are waiting 3000 seconds in your loop. For 50 minutes. ... in a purely digital environment. Think about building a house. Digging the foundation, pouring cement, building block walls, framing, sheathing, weatherproofing, insulat…

Today, the real world is so intertwined with the digital world that it may as well be one thing. If an AI decided it wanted more power, and took over every computer on the planet with it's exceptional speed and intelligence (to be clear, I know this isn't possible today, but someday), we could do nothing to stop it, we'd have to just unplug and reset ALL of our technology, literally replacing any digital storage with zeros as to eliminate the infection. I don't think that's possible without billions of people dying in the interim.

Re: Geoffrey Hinton leaves Google and warns of danger ahead

#299
The flip-flopping of AI critics is completely explainable by flip-flopping morals of the architects.

> Dr. Hinton said that when people used to ask him how he could work on technology that was potentially dangerous, he would paraphrase Robert Oppenheimer, who led the U.S. effort to build the atomic bomb: “When you see something that is technically sweet, you go ahead and do it.”

If anyone outside the core architects changes their mind on AI either way, I don't think negatively at all. It's all confounded by the naivete of a few, which by definition is open to constant change. The critics just did or didn't think someone so naive could rise to so much power.

Re: Geoffrey Hinton leaves Google and warns of danger ahead

#300
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think GPT4 can converse on any subject at all as well as a (let's say) 80 IQ human. On some subjects it can converse much better. That feels fundamentally different than a calculator.

GPT-4 is absolutely more generally knowledgeable than any individual person. Individual humans can still easily beat it when it comes to knowledge of individual subjects. Let’s not conflate knowledge with intelligence though. GPT-4 simply isn’t intelligent.

Is GPT more knowledgeable though than an individual person using Google?
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