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Vacations in the Soviet Union

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Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#51

Post by explorer83 »

arsome wrote: post #33
ahelwer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prolonged periods of time spent without obligation to work for pay is one of the greatest luxuries you can have in this life. People shouldn't have to wait until retirement to enjoy it. Sabbatical, basically, although even sabbatical often comes with obligations for self-improvement serving the company offering it. A lot of discourse on working hours revolves around decreasing the hours worked per week. I would also…

> What is all this wealth and automation and productivity growth for, then? Why, more wealth and automation and productivity growth to no end of course.

I know all of these things sound nice. But in the real world a lot of businesses aren't making the kind of profit that allows workers to just take time off and not generate any revenue for the company. Sure there are some that could pull it off. But most small businesses aren't making that kind of profit. Unless you are assuming workers are supposed to take unpaid time off. But then how are they going to afford to take time off?

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#53

Post by ghaff »

ahelwer wrote: post #7
EarthIsHome wrote: post #2

Happy May Day! Here's a Twitter thread [0] that has excerpts/paraphrases from an old Soviet pamphlet called "How Soviet Workers Spend Their Leisure." (rolled up version [1]) You can find a scanned version of the pamphlet here [2]. There were many of these pamphlets published. One day I will scan them and post them. There was one on Waterways & Transport in the USSR, one about Soviet theater, one about the food indust…

Prolonged periods of time spent without obligation to work for pay is one of the greatest luxuries you can have in this life. People shouldn't have to wait until retirement to enjoy it. Sabbatical, basically, although even sabbatical often comes with obligations for self-improvement serving the company offering it. A lot of discourse on working hours revolves around decreasing the hours worked per week. I would also…

Personally in my career I would have much preferred sabbaticals to a reduced work week. I think most companies would find sabbaticals hard to retrofit though. You either screw the people who have a long tenure with the company or you suddenly have an unsustainable number of people who are now eligible for a sabbatical all at the same time.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#54

Post by krisoft »

fweimer wrote: post #23

> In the West, what you do when you leave the office was and is your own business. In the USSR, it was everyone else’s. Is this actually true? In Germany at least, vacation from work is not truly our own time. We are legally required to use it to relax and restore our capacity for future work. Few people probably see it that way, admittedly. Of course, there is still a huge difference, but it's awkward to view everyt…

> We are legally required to use it to relax and restore our capacity for future work.

What does that mean in practice? Will the police come knocking on your door if they see you digging up the garden? Will someone arrest you if you go sailing and get bonged in the head by accident instead of resting? If you use your vacation days to help your grandma move a grand piano will you get in trouble? If you do your taxes on your vacation day will they refuse your forms?

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#55

Post by wnzl »

falcolas wrote: post #27
zelphirkalt wrote: post #19

PTO = Paid time off, apparently.

Huh. Is that not common vernacular where you're from?

I’m from Eastern Europe and I’ve learned what PTO means after working with US folks.

For us it was always called “vacation”. It is taken for granted that sick days, funerals (and plenty more that I can’t list from my head) are always paid.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#56

Post by helge9210 »

Aaronstotle wrote: post #11
atemerev wrote: post #3

The Soviet economy was somewhat surreal and it is difficult to explain it well to the Western audience. Including vacations, vacation tickets («путёвки»), summer camps, sanatoriums and the like. I still remember some parts though, so if you are interested in how it worked, I can answer your questions. Most definitely it wasn't all that rosy.

My grandparents and my father grew up in the Soviet Union. I always find it fascinating hearing about my grandparent's childhood and what it was like to grow up there. One anecdote for not all rosy: My father is permanently traumatized because he had to get his tonsils removed when he was young and they didn't give him any anesthetics.

> they didn't give him any anesthetics

This is a description of the most of the Soviet health services.

For example, dentists were using short metal pipe on a thumb when treating kids, so they don't bite or close their mouth.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#57

Post by meindnoch »

fweimer wrote: post #23

> In the West, what you do when you leave the office was and is your own business. In the USSR, it was everyone else’s. Is this actually true? In Germany at least, vacation from work is not truly our own time. We are legally required to use it to relax and restore our capacity for future work. Few people probably see it that way, admittedly. Of course, there is still a huge difference, but it's awkward to view everyt…

Lol. So you can't remodel your house while on PTO? Somehow I doubt this is the case...

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#58

Post by zvmaz »

In the past, a was skeptical of writings describing totalitarian societies/states, especially since it was often politically motivated. Until becoming a subject of one.

Edit: I am curious as to why I get downvoted. Is it a political trope in a particular country to say that one lives in a totalitarian society/state? A rhetorical ploy? I use it in a literal sense: no freedom of expression, no freedom of the press, jailed political opponents and journalists, criminalization of political movements, jailed citizens for saying thinks on Facebook, jailed citizens for having been in a protest, the constant threat of prison for almost any trifle...

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#59

Post by gumballindie »

gwright wrote: post #35
gumballindie wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That is quite the stretch to think those situations are "a bit [a]like".

Two sides of the same coin. I know it’s difficult to see it while stuck inside the loop but corporate work is like soviet work with fancy iphones and the illusion of free choice (you can chose as long as the choice is right). The politburo is replaced by the board while the apparatus by management. Conformity and obedience are not just desired are actively encouraged. Spreading corporate propaganda and preventing workers from organising are also shared values. All in all both are systems of oppression with the exception that in free societies you can escape - until of course they find a way to replace people at scale. Then you get sucked back in while the proletariat cheers from the sides.
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