Ignore Microsoft’s whines about the Activision takeover. The CMA did its job • Hacker News Board

Re: Ignore Microsoft’s whines about the Activision takeover. The CMA did its job

#131

Post by dogma1138 » Mon, May 01, 2023, 2:51 PM UTC

yarg wrote: post #127

dogma1138 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK’s power in this situation isn’t contingent on Microsoft at all. Brexit or not the UK still has a lot of soft power, it’s still a G7 member and a large economy. Other countries won’t look too kindly on a corporation ignoring a major and very well respected regulator even if their interests aren’t impacted by that particular decision. The rule of law is something countries fight to preserve and it’s very much a…

There have been many situations where companies have pulled out of disagreeable regulatory environments. If microsoft decided to no longer do business in the UK (not happening - it's a bluff) it would not be beholden to their decision. It would be a different situation if either company was based in the UK, but that's not the case.

Not on this level, it’s usually a specific product or service that isn’t compatible with existing regulation.

There is a very big difference between that and seeking permission and being told no and then acting like a 5 year old which is what Microsoft and Activision are doing.

Re: Ignore Microsoft’s whines about the Activision takeover. The CMA did its job

#132

Post by aardvarkr » Mon, May 01, 2023, 2:51 PM UTC

mrkramer wrote: post #47

etempleton wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they could possibly say that they will move forward with the merger, but cease to publish or sell games in the UK, but I very much doubt they would. The UK is still too big / profitable of a market. As an aside, it is interesting to see how this merger is received in the tech space vs gaming space. Most folks in gaming seem to welcome the merger because Activision has long been anti-consumer / bad stewards of…

>I also think the CMAs rationale for their decision is bizarre and shows a lack of understanding of the space. They blocked the acquisition on a premise that cloud gaming will be huge in the future and that Microsoft might make Activision Blizzard games exclusive to their Xbox Cloud. Taking in consideration Microsoft's enormous comparative advantages like owning Xbox, Xbox Cloud, Game Pass, Windows, Microsoft Azure p…

A large part of the remedy that Microsoft offered was to give cloud streaming licenses to every competitor for free for its entire portfolio of games. Every single cloud gaming company is wildly in favor of the merger for this reason. Funny how it works - with CMA killing the deal it’s likely that Microsoft will go back to the status quo and keep its IP to itself to increase the barriers to entry

Re: Ignore Microsoft’s whines about the Activision takeover. The CMA did its job

#133

Post by aardvarkr » Mon, May 01, 2023, 2:57 PM UTC

manuelabeledo wrote: post #109

criley2 wrote: post #49

I think it's fair that Microsoft is upset that they cannot do what their competitors have already completed. If the UK proceeds with a mandatory breakup of Sony's holdings, I would then approve of how they're regulating the market. If they, however, allow one titan to build an unstoppable first-party monopoly but bar only some of the competition from catching up, then I have serious concerns and misgivings with the m…

> I think it's fair that Microsoft is upset that they cannot do what their competitors have already completed. Microsoft buying Activision-Blizzard would create the second largest gaming company in the world by revenue. In comparison, Sony's largest acquisition was Bungie, which was 30x smaller than Activision-Blizzard. Also, the ruling specifically addresses cloud gaming, not consoles.

I think they’d be the third largest behind tencent and Sony

Re: Ignore Microsoft’s whines about the Activision takeover. The CMA did its job

#134

Post by pid-1 » Mon, May 01, 2023, 3:03 PM UTC

manuelabeledo wrote: post #105

This is what it says in the report about cloud gaming: > In relation to cloud gaming services, Microsoft has a combination of assets that we consider is difficult for other cloud gaming service providers to match. By owning Windows, the OS for which the vast majority of PC games are designed, Microsoft could stream games from Windows servers without having to pay a Windows licensing fee or adapt games designed for Wi…

Since this whole argument is untestable wild guessing: maybe there was a future in which Microsoft buying Activision pushed more companies to hedge against a possible MS monopoly by properly supporting Linux, like Valve has been doing for the past years.

Re: Ignore Microsoft’s whines about the Activision takeover. The CMA did its job

#135

Post by aardvarkr » Mon, May 01, 2023, 3:05 PM UTC

manuelabeledo wrote: post #129

aardvarkr wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They own “60-70% market share” in large part due to the failure of every other cloud gaming company to gain meaningful usage (Google Stadia and Amazon Luna) and in small part because the CMA inflated the count of active users to include EVERY Xbox game pass ultimate subscriber, regardless of whether they’ve touched it. Luna is available to every prime member yet they aren’t counted in that MAU calculation. Only Micro…

Let's put it this way. If you have Game Pass, would you use its cloud gaming service, or would you go out of your way and play in Luna, which by the way, does not have as many games? Also, Amazon does not have the software platform, nor the hardware, to compete with Microsoft (Windows, Xbox). Microsoft could and does bundle a Xbox app in Windows, which also features their cloud platform very prominently [0]. Essentia…

Let’s put it another way. Just because I can buy a product doesn’t mean I have bought a product. That theoretical purchase is purely speculative and hasn’t happened yet and can’t count for market share. If you want it your way, though, then I’d expect that you insist every prime subscriber should be included in the count of Luna MAU as well. Your same logic applies.

I have both prime and game pass ultimate and use neither bc honestly cloud gaming sucks, even with google fiber.

Re: Ignore Microsoft’s whines about the Activision takeover. The CMA did its job

#136

Post by manuelabeledo » Mon, May 01, 2023, 3:18 PM UTC

aardvarkr wrote: post #135

manuelabeledo wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's put it this way. If you have Game Pass, would you use its cloud gaming service, or would you go out of your way and play in Luna, which by the way, does not have as many games? Also, Amazon does not have the software platform, nor the hardware, to compete with Microsoft (Windows, Xbox). Microsoft could and does bundle a Xbox app in Windows, which also features their cloud platform very prominently [0]. Essentia…

Let’s put it another way. Just because I can buy a product doesn’t mean I have bought a product. That theoretical purchase is purely speculative and hasn’t happened yet and can’t count for market share. If you want it your way, though, then I’d expect that you insist every prime subscriber should be included in the count of Luna MAU as well. Your same logic applies. I have both prime and game pass ultimate and use ne…

> Just because I can buy a product doesn’t mean I have bought a product.

But you have. Inadvertently, but you did.

I think you don't understand Microsoft's idea of vertically integrating your gaming experience, and it isn't even a new concept for them, as they have been doing it with pretty much every single market they have got into, e.g. Office, Internet Explorer.

Microsoft bundled cloud gaming inside their subscription, because that's how they target users who want to play games. Same goes to the fact that they very prominently provide access to their cloud gaming service from their two gaming platforms, Xbox and Windows.

It is fair to say that people with a cloud gaming subscription from Microsoft are, in fact, gamers.

In comparison, Amazon bundles several services in Prime. I didn't even know I had free access to some Luna games. The other day I found out that I could stream some free music as well. I don't agree with their model either, but I bet that the vast majority of Prime members aren't paying Amazon just to have free access to Luna.

Re: Ignore Microsoft’s whines about the Activision takeover. The CMA did its job

#137

Post by waboremo » Mon, May 01, 2023, 3:22 PM UTC

pid-1 wrote: post #134

manuelabeledo wrote: post #105

This is what it says in the report about cloud gaming: > In relation to cloud gaming services, Microsoft has a combination of assets that we consider is difficult for other cloud gaming service providers to match. By owning Windows, the OS for which the vast majority of PC games are designed, Microsoft could stream games from Windows servers without having to pay a Windows licensing fee or adapt games designed for Wi…

Since this whole argument is untestable wild guessing: maybe there was a future in which Microsoft buying Activision pushed more companies to hedge against a possible MS monopoly by properly supporting Linux, like Valve has been doing for the past years.

Right, like how people unanimously supported Stadia because it was a Linux hedge against Microsoft's Windows cloud dominance.

They've extrapolated past experiences in the industry to understand what is likely to happen in the future. Microsoft buying large publishers won't mean some tidal wave of others wanting to push Linux instead, it would be a securing of Windows/Xbox. Microsoft would also likely pull their games from Steam, why bother when you own two publishing storefronts. There goes more games.

Valve is correct in hedging their bets against Microsoft because their entire ecosystem still relies on Windows continued tolerance (and incompetence) towards them. However studios and most publishers have zero reason to care, they go where the most users are and therefore wouldn't join some hypothetical hedge against Windows.

Re: Ignore Microsoft’s whines about the Activision takeover. The CMA did its job

#138

Post by shanoaice » Mon, May 01, 2023, 3:26 PM UTC

It seems like that nobody cares about anything of the players of Activision games. A lot people supports this takeover simply becase they hope Microsoft could be a better manager at making decisions about how the games are made and how the service operates. We simply want Bobby Kotick out, and Microsoft's acquire is our best chance.

Re: Ignore Microsoft’s whines about the Activision takeover. The CMA did its job

#139

Post by staticman2 » Mon, May 01, 2023, 3:26 PM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #68

hgsgm wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limited Liability Corporations aren't citizens. Satya Natella is welcome to take MS private as a sole proprietorship.

Corporations have the same rights as people; otherwise your freedom of speech and other rights could be abridged while you're conducting business as a corporation, which we don't want.

I assure you my rights would be in no way limited by rules preventing what the Microsoft Board of director's do with other people's money.

Re: Ignore Microsoft’s whines about the Activision takeover. The CMA did its job

#140

Post by pwthornton » Mon, May 01, 2023, 3:27 PM UTC

daniel-s wrote: post #18

I don't mind the complaint about CMA being undemocratic because it's a council of unelected bureaucrats, it's just trash-talk from someone that didn't get what they wanted; to be expected. IMO the reason why this decision is really dumb is because the reason given was cloud gaming. I think that people are missing this. This isn't a market. Almost nobody plays on cloud gaming platforms, like Stadia which recently clos…

I have access to Microsoft's xCloud as part of my Xbox Game Pass sub. I never use it. The lag is too great. I am sure certain kinds of games could work reasonably well on it, but overall it's just such a poor experience.

I'd rather either bring a Switch while traveling or just play a game on my phone or iPad.

I can't believe the deal might fall apart because Microsoft has a "dominant" position in basically a non-existent market that there is no evidence will ever become a market. There are cloud games that work well. If the deal falls apart over this, and not the actual concerns about MS owning huge IP, this regulation is truly broken.

These are not the kinds of games that people buy PlayStations and Xboxes for. Jackbox party games? Sure. Awesome in the cloud. A turn-based strategy or RPG? Why not. Anything that requires reflexes? Not happening.