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A US Bill Would Ban Kids Under 13 from Joining Social Media

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Re: A US Bill Would Ban Kids Under 13 from Joining Social Media

#101

Post by [deleted] »

meindnoch wrote: post #53
john_the_writer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand that "behind parents back" bit. My teen kids aren't on social. I know this because their dumb phones don't support it, and their computers are not permitted in their rooms (Kitchen table only). I suppose they could get on, through a friends smart-phone, but that would be limited to the time they spend on the bus to/from school.

How do you know they don't have a second phone? E.g. a friend gave them their old phone. As a kid I was doing graffiti, and later drinking and smoking weed without my parents knowledge.

[deleted]

Re: A US Bill Would Ban Kids Under 13 from Joining Social Media

#102

Post by john_the_writer »

meindnoch wrote: post #53
john_the_writer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand that "behind parents back" bit. My teen kids aren't on social. I know this because their dumb phones don't support it, and their computers are not permitted in their rooms (Kitchen table only). I suppose they could get on, through a friends smart-phone, but that would be limited to the time they spend on the bus to/from school.

How do you know they don't have a second phone? E.g. a friend gave them their old phone. As a kid I was doing graffiti, and later drinking and smoking weed without my parents knowledge.

1. none of their friends have the money to have an old phone.

2. When would they have the time. They're home, and at school. Band, Judo, Cadets, Tutoring. Where's the time to hide a phone.

3. I'll stipulate that some kids could do it. Vast majority would get caught. And my kids fear the pink bunny suit I have in my closet. I'd walk them to school every day for a month. Lets seem them stay on facebook through that. :)

Re: A US Bill Would Ban Kids Under 13 from Joining Social Media

#103

Post by john_the_writer »

Bender wrote: post #87
hnlmorg wrote: post #23

The issue as I see it isn’t going to be solved by forcing social networks to gather even more personal information about individuals (eg proof of ID and proof of age). The issue is how social networks are engineered, either by chance or by design, to promote negativity in the pursuit of engagement. If we can find a way to declaw social networks then we’d have a healthier ecosystem for all ages. But this is a much har…

I believe the only correct way to solve this is to add an RTA header on sites that permit user-generated content and require the most common devices and browsers to once again recognize this header and instead of just treating it as adult content, also use it for user-generated content. Then put the liability on the parents to lock down devices. Let parents decide which domains/urls to approve-list in the devices. If…

This would 100% work for techies. I'd put a rule on my router to not allow devices to go here. Woot.

But sadly most people wouldn't know how to use this info. It's the first great idea I've read though.

Re: A US Bill Would Ban Kids Under 13 from Joining Social Media

#104

Post by Mindwipe »

hellojesus wrote: post #96
Mindwipe wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately plan B is to ban anonymous access to websites.

People will just stop using us based sites.

The UK and most of Western Europe are doing the same thing. Russia and China are no fans of the free internet.

Re: A US Bill Would Ban Kids Under 13 from Joining Social Media

#105

Post by hellojesus »

Mindwipe wrote: post #104
hellojesus wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People will just stop using us based sites.

The UK and most of Western Europe are doing the same thing. Russia and China are no fans of the free internet.

True, but it only takes a single country anywhere in the world to keep the internet free. And by keeping the net free, they'll get all the money, so they're is a strong incentive to do so.

In the event there are no countries left there are still options:

1. Hidden services

2. Decentralized

3. Just create a pool mechanism where you contribute your private key for whatever gov Auth system exists, then use a random id from the pool among all sign-ups everytime you sign up for a service.

Re: A US Bill Would Ban Kids Under 13 from Joining Social Media

#106

Post by woodruffw »

mattmanser wrote: post #100
woodruffw wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you buy cigarettes in a store, you normally get carded. It stands to reason that an equivalent online system would require a similar online solution; most people are not particularly enthused by the idea of having to present an ID to consume any information that could potentially considered to fall under “social media.”

They already card you in most social media apps. This is like saying "oh no, they want you to use your real identity". It's already a part of the process. This is incredibly destructive and addictive stuff. The days of the wild west of the internet are over.

I’m not aware of any major social media site that makes users present a government issued ID during their normal registration flow. They might require it for registrations that trigger a fraud or similar alert, but it’s certainly not the norm.

If you want to get rid of a destructive and addictive thing, maybe it would be more effective to just advocate for that. Requiring a government ID and government categorization of every site on the Internet is not likely to accomplish what you want.

Re: A US Bill Would Ban Kids Under 13 from Joining Social Media

#107

Post by hnlmorg »

john_the_writer wrote: post #103
Bender wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the only correct way to solve this is to add an RTA header on sites that permit user-generated content and require the most common devices and browsers to once again recognize this header and instead of just treating it as adult content, also use it for user-generated content. Then put the liability on the parents to lock down devices. Let parents decide which domains/urls to approve-list in the devices. If…

This would 100% work for techies. I'd put a rule on my router to not allow devices to go here. Woot. But sadly most people wouldn't know how to use this info. It's the first great idea I've read though.

Great idea in theory but in practice it would be trivial to bypass. You’d just need one cheeky proxy to MITM the connection and you end up in a worse situation than you started (from a security standpoint).

Rather than limiting access, what we really should be doing is limiting the negative harm that social networks can cause. For example YouTube Kids is a vast improvement over regular YouTube with regards to younger audiences.

Re: A US Bill Would Ban Kids Under 13 from Joining Social Media

#108

Post by mattmanser »

woodruffw wrote: post #106
mattmanser wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already card you in most social media apps. This is like saying "oh no, they want you to use your real identity". It's already a part of the process. This is incredibly destructive and addictive stuff. The days of the wild west of the internet are over.

I’m not aware of any major social media site that makes users present a government issued ID during their normal registration flow. They might require it for registrations that trigger a fraud or similar alert, but it’s certainly not the norm. If you want to get rid of a destructive and addictive thing, maybe it would be more effective to just advocate for that. Requiring a government ID and government categorization…

These days they aggressively get rid of fake accounts, they're doing everything but requiring id.

So the only effective thing would be to put it behind a government id check.

The reality is we've relied "on the parents" to police devices and it hasn't worked at all.

it's too much to ask them to do, the internet is too vast and too chaotic. The onus needs to be put onto the companies.

Requiring a government id is all there is, it's the solution.

Re: A US Bill Would Ban Kids Under 13 from Joining Social Media

#109

Post by woodruffw »

mattmanser wrote: post #108
woodruffw wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not aware of any major social media site that makes users present a government issued ID during their normal registration flow. They might require it for registrations that trigger a fraud or similar alert, but it’s certainly not the norm. If you want to get rid of a destructive and addictive thing, maybe it would be more effective to just advocate for that. Requiring a government ID and government categorization…

These days they aggressively get rid of fake accounts, they're doing everything but requiring id. So the only effective thing would be to put it behind a government id check. The reality is we've relied "on the parents" to police devices and it hasn't worked at all. it's too much to ask them to do, the internet is too vast and too chaotic. The onus needs to be put onto the companies. Requiring a government id is all…

I think it's worth asking yourself whether you really want a government database to know (which, by necessity, it will) each time you access a website.
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