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Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

covertactionmagazine.com

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Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#311

Post by lost_tourist »

jruohonen wrote: post #2

In the EU we already have a law for protecting whistleblowers: https://commission.europa.eu/aid-development-cooperation-fun... Also companies have emerged for providing secure platforms for whistleblowers. Though, as national security and related things are in the hands of the member states, I am not sure how well this EU law and its national adaptations apply to the cases discussed in this article (probably wholesal…

Laws are pointless if they aren't used. The US has laws to allow whistleblowing. However they are so vague US prosecutors can easily get around them to prosecute and imprison whistleblowers, and the system itself is so corrupt that the "channels" you would use to actually do it would shut down the process almost immediately to save embarrassment to the government. The laws are just feel good laws and don't work, that's why people go straight to the press.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#312

Post by kennend3 »

3pt14159 wrote: post #72
realjohng wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. He worked with journalists to try the make the leak safe. Let’s focus on impact- Now everyone is at least aware that digital activities are under surveillance including phone call metadata. We have made that trade off for some security. Thank you Snowden.

And yet, it is not journalists that are privy to classified material, it is lawmakers, military staff, intelligence staff, and their contractors and consultants. What makes a journalist a better place to whistle to than an elected politician on the intelligence committee or any one of a number of other options. My basic position on this is that secret holders never have the full picture, but at least they have the tr…

Let us guess, you are also fabulously wealthy? For some odd reason fictional spies seem to be very wealth as well.

If you worked for CSIS it is unlikely you would be posting that you worked there, same for the CIA. Did you somehow just transfer to the CIA and as a "foreign national" all the confidential material marked "NOFORN" was suddenly available to you, a foreigner?

Declaring yourself a "spy" in public.. Any chance you have yet to reach the age of majority?

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#313

Post by lost_tourist »

copper-float wrote: post #183
anonym29 wrote: post #38

"Truth is treason in the empire of lies." - George Orwell

Perfectly said, it encapsulates America to a tee.

and every other country, let's let them have credit too. Politicians everywhere are usually pieces of shit, as are their henchmen

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#314

Post by lost_tourist »

umvi wrote: post #181

Some whistleblowers are just disgruntled and are not acting out of a sense of moral obligation but are rather whistleblowing as a form of vengeance

Does that matter if what they are whisteblowing about is corrupt and it's true?

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#315

Post by lost_tourist »

kingcharles wrote: post #65

If you discover law enforcement or prosecutors committing crimes, who do you report it to? This is a serious question. You can only report it to their peers, and I promise you, from personal experience, that you will get absolutely nowhere except, like Snowden, have an entire world of hurt come down on you instead. I can not recommend whistleblowing to anyone. If you see the government going wrong, ignore it. Walk aw…

If it's local, report it to the state, if it's the state report it to the feds, if it's the feds your only real option is to do it and run to another country, or keep your mouth shut and just find a new job. This process has repeated itself many times in the news if you research it.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#316

Post by shkkmo »

penneallagricia wrote: post #247
nullityrofl wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I don't understand is the complete lack of response from countries like Italy and Germany once they found out being spied by an ally. Because they're all doing it too. Any attempts at retaliation what have been hypocritical and met with callouts. EDIT: Since this is news to some people who seem to think that the entirety of Europe is on a moral high horse, here's some references. There's little morality in int…

You keep providing more and more evidence that the US is involved in spying most of its allies. Notice how almost all of these cases are about some 3rd country assisting the US in spying someone else? You are just proving that the US is not behaving like a positive force for the world, which was entirely my point. I never said that European countries are saints. I just fear with good reason a US hegemony given their…

> Notice how almost all of these cases are about some 3rd country assisting the US in spying someone else?

How is 2/5 "almost all"?

The US hegemony is rightfully feared, but only because on their relatively unchecked power, not because of any inherent ethical superiority.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#317

Post by nullityrofl »

penneallagricia wrote: post #247
nullityrofl wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I don't understand is the complete lack of response from countries like Italy and Germany once they found out being spied by an ally. Because they're all doing it too. Any attempts at retaliation what have been hypocritical and met with callouts. EDIT: Since this is news to some people who seem to think that the entirety of Europe is on a moral high horse, here's some references. There's little morality in int…

You keep providing more and more evidence that the US is involved in spying most of its allies. Notice how almost all of these cases are about some 3rd country assisting the US in spying someone else? You are just proving that the US is not behaving like a positive force for the world, which was entirely my point. I never said that European countries are saints. I just fear with good reason a US hegemony given their…

You mean 2 of 5 and those 2 still involve the EU spying on it's allies, right? So all 5 examples of the EU spying on its allies a thing that you said there was "no proof whatsoever" of?

I never said that the US is or isn't a positive net on the world: I said that spying isn't evidence of your point. Because by your definition no country is positive net on the world.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#318

Post by mixmastamyk »

0xDEF wrote: post #254
nagkl wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden contacted Laura Poitras first, with this famous mail: https://www.wired.com/2014/10/snowdens-first-emails-to-poitr... "You ask why I picked you. I didn't. You did. The surveillance you've experienced means you've been selected, a term which will mean more to you as you learn about how the modern sigint system works." I wish everyone here would watch the movie Citizen Four to learn more about the backgrounds a…

>trying to link him to anti-US foreign policy sentiments Being anti-US foreign policy is generally a good thing and the only reason you are going to leak to Glenn Greenwald of all people in late 2012. Snowden also exposed that it was not Bashar al-Assad's legitimate democratically elected government that turned off the Internet in Syria in 2012. It was actually the NSA: https://time.com/3107684/snowden-nsa-syria-cybe…

What a bizarre tangent, with nothing to back it up besides “2012.”

Nothing wrong with Greenwald besides being a well-written PITA. He also saw the story though, at substantial risk to himself. A great choice to be included, even from hindsight.

I read GGs pieces on Salon about the Bush Admin in the early 00s and was impressed enough to remember his name later. At no time do I remember him being an “axis of evil” apologist.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#319

Post by simonh »

penneallagricia wrote: post #247
nullityrofl wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I don't understand is the complete lack of response from countries like Italy and Germany once they found out being spied by an ally. Because they're all doing it too. Any attempts at retaliation what have been hypocritical and met with callouts. EDIT: Since this is news to some people who seem to think that the entirety of Europe is on a moral high horse, here's some references. There's little morality in int…

You keep providing more and more evidence that the US is involved in spying most of its allies. Notice how almost all of these cases are about some 3rd country assisting the US in spying someone else? You are just proving that the US is not behaving like a positive force for the world, which was entirely my point. I never said that European countries are saints. I just fear with good reason a US hegemony given their…

The point is everybody is spying on everybody else. Every nation has spy agencies, and what they do is spying, it’s right there in the name. It’s just that the US operation is bigger and better funded, and has the biggest network of allies. This is not a shocking surprise to anyone in government anywhere, or anyone who knows almost anything at all about the history of intelligence work and espionage. The UK spied on the US throughout WW2. It’s how the world has always worked.

As for being a positive force in the world, that depends what they do with the information. It’s a different concern.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#320

Post by giantrobot »

copper-float wrote: post #166
mandmandam wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> these sort of issues where people overwhelmingly feel one way, and the political establishment feels another? Yeah, those are all strangely absent. I feel that Sanders' nomination campaigns epitomized this divide: He spoke for the people. Many more people donated for him than any other candidate, his supporters were diverse and enthusiastic. He was the number one most popular politician in the entire country. Yet m…

We need to shift the dynamic in America from relying on these media conglomerates, to individuals doing their own research on things. Everyone knows the news media is rigged beyond saving, we need to let them die out, it's what they all deserve for betraying the trust of the people.

Oh man yeah. Individuals doing their own research. They'll just pour over minutes of committee meetings, develop contacts in government agencies, and explore a bunch of primary sources all in their spare time! It's so simple!
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