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More people are getting away with murder

npr.org

41–50 of 114 posts

Re: More people are getting away with murder

#41
One thing is kind of unclear to me, are we segregating by murder type?

For example (not sure if true): It would seem a drop in easier to identity domestic violence murders would throw stats off for the others that were always hard to solve.

My googling is failing on getting the mix of murders by type by year.

Re: More people are getting away with murder

#42

The comment section here is in poor shape. Violent crime is up all over the united states, and at least from what I've seen, there is not a single easy explanation for why. ie, I'm very sympathetic to the argument that "de-fund the police" has had very negative effects, however we're seeing violent crime rise in districts which were not de-funded. The whole red vs. blue states / cities thing doesn't seem to stack up…

Does it rise less or the same in the districts that were not de-funded?

Re: More people are getting away with murder

#43
post #20

Why does the lead photo prominently feature a “racism is a sin” sign and the article immediately mentions PoC victims in Oakland? Isn’t the vast majority of PoC victimhood in Oakland intraracial? Not many Klansmen walking around Oakland. Annoying race baiting from NPR.

I would guess they are bringing up racism in the systemic sense. That relatively little resources are used to investigate those murders.

Isn’t that like relabeling accidental deaths on public property as “systemic murder”, ignoring that the word “murder” connotes intent?

Re: More people are getting away with murder

#44

Was on a jury for a murder trial dec 2021. The trial gave me a new found respect for how trials are conducted, what evidence is allowed in, how defendants are protected, and the general thought and reasoning behind it all. Then, the jury deliberated and I lost a ton of respect for the ability of a jury of my peers to logically reason and responsibly decide. It was an absolute shit show in false pretenses, irrational…

Counterpoint, I was on a murder jury several years ago where every part of the justice system was pretty abysmal. Whether the police who were near incompetent in their investigation, the forensics people who could barely maintain chain of evidence or both sets of attorneys who couldn’t make logical arguments on either side. The only people who came out looking good was the judge who was able to keep this circus from…

> "police who were near incompetent in their investigation, the forensics people who could barely maintain chain of evidence"

Are you sure they were all bad at their jobs? It's certainly possible. But it's also possible that you simply had unrealistic expectations for what the process looks like, exemplifying the "CSI Effect".

This is why I find these sort of pseudo-anonymous anecdotes very difficult to judge; I know neither the details of the case, nor you personally. It's like trying to get reviews for headphones online... suppose I read a review from somebody who says the headphones sound worse than a skinned cat. Is that review from a typical headphone user with reasonable expectations for sound quality? Or is it from an audiophile with very high, perhaps fanciful, standards? I have no point of reference for determining where that person is coming from.

Re: More people are getting away with murder

#45
post #24
post #3

Why limit this to unsolved murders? How many police depts ignore property crime? How many police depts have hour long wait times for 911 response? How many 911 systems routinely delay or drop calls? We had a story near here recently where a DUI accident investigation couldn't proceed because it took so long for police to arrive that the suspect sobered up enough Or the woman who was hit by a car and the police took o…

It's pretty clear that cops are staging a slowdown strike. They are one of the few industries where they get more money when their KPIs go south.

I think just about every industry gets more money when their KPIs go south, but in anything government-related (typically a natural monopoly) it all goes to one organization. Another example on the opposite end of the spectrum is that NASA did such a good job in the late 60's and early 70's of getting humans to the moon (a feat still never matched) that their budget was cut massively. Government problems attract money, solved problems result in budget cuts, it's an almost inevitable result.

That being said, you're not wrong that there is a severe morale problem among American police officers. I'm not sure we have the knowledge to figure out the solution, at this point. I suspect we are seeing the beginnings of something similar in public education.

Re: More people are getting away with murder

#46
post #20

Why does the lead photo prominently feature a “racism is a sin” sign and the article immediately mentions PoC victims in Oakland? Isn’t the vast majority of PoC victimhood in Oakland intraracial? Not many Klansmen walking around Oakland. Annoying race baiting from NPR.

I would guess they are bringing up racism in the systemic sense. That relatively little resources are used to investigate those murders.

Perhaps a graph of police resources used by race, per capita, could substantiate that claim. Because the article doesn't even make the claim (except perhaps implicitly), let alone offer proof of it.

Re: More people are getting away with murder

#47

The comment section here is in poor shape. Violent crime is up all over the united states, and at least from what I've seen, there is not a single easy explanation for why. ie, I'm very sympathetic to the argument that "de-fund the police" has had very negative effects, however we're seeing violent crime rise in districts which were not de-funded. The whole red vs. blue states / cities thing doesn't seem to stack up…

Not according to stats: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/10/31/violent-c...

Totals are not up, and "red states" are much more violent.

As you observe, police funding has about zero effect on crime.

Re: More people are getting away with murder

#48
post #33

Was on a jury for a murder trial dec 2021. The trial gave me a new found respect for how trials are conducted, what evidence is allowed in, how defendants are protected, and the general thought and reasoning behind it all. Then, the jury deliberated and I lost a ton of respect for the ability of a jury of my peers to logically reason and responsibly decide. It was an absolute shit show in false pretenses, irrational…

I was on the jury for a simple drunk driving case where the cop, the only witness testifying, with no other evidence presented, was caught lying about being "run off the road." Lost a lot of faith in mankind that day.

Hah. That happened to my brother in law.

He was driving home in twilight (after regular work day, no drinking involved) and a mad guy jumped in front of him on the road. My brother in law swerved and avoided the crazy dude and kept driving.

A kilometer later he was chased down by a angry violent police officer in police cruiser who arrested him, put him in cuffs, slammed him into the cruiser with no discussion. Turns out the crazy guy was a police officer running a hidden speed trap, but of course it was hidden so there was no police cruiser in sight, no lights, and the officer was wearing a plain dark vest and armor which just looked like regular clothes.

The complaint has been stalled for three years now of course. The officer still claims my brother in law was deliberately trying to run the officer down. Meanwhile my brother in law (like, THE most kind and easy going and peaceful person I know) is basically permanently scarred.

As a kid I thought police officers were like angel saints. Now I know enough of them to understand they're just people, doing a job. Some are good at it some are bad at it some are ass holes. But the job gives simply incredible amount of unchecked power,while they deal with worst in human kind.

Re: More people are getting away with murder

#49

The comment section here is in poor shape. Violent crime is up all over the united states, and at least from what I've seen, there is not a single easy explanation for why. ie, I'm very sympathetic to the argument that "de-fund the police" has had very negative effects, however we're seeing violent crime rise in districts which were not de-funded. The whole red vs. blue states / cities thing doesn't seem to stack up…

As NPR is the source of this story and I’m too lazy to look up actual statistics…

They had a story a week or so ago about how all crime is up and speculated that the police are less likely to interact with the public because they’re afraid the encounter will escalate and they will end up getting prosecuted for doing their job. Think they even had an “expert” to back their claim.

So what you get is police who won’t do their job out of fear of retaliation and people seeing there are no consequences for their actions just doing whatever they want.

And, of course, the current narrative is the police are “silent quitting” in protest because who else are they going to blame?

Re: More people are getting away with murder

#50
"While reasons behind the drop are multi-faceted, Cook and other experts warn that more people getting away with murder in the the U.S. is driving a kind of doom loop of mutual mistrust: low murder clearance rates impede future investigations which in turn potentially drive up killings in some communities where a lack of arrests undermines deterrence and sends a message that the police will not or cannot protect them."

Interesting that the article mentions the sizable drop in clearance rates in 2020 yet does not offer up any explanation for why that may be the case.

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