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Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

covertactionmagazine.com

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Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#201

Post by AlbertCory »

fn-mote wrote: post #105
AlbertCory wrote: post #39

How about the guy right now who's blowing the whistle on favored IRS treatment of Hunter Biden? Does he count, too? https://abcnews.go.com/US/irs-whistleblower-told-congress-hu...

He is a potential whistleblower. Your linked article says: "[My client] would like to make protected whistleblower disclosures to Congress." "[T]here are no specific examples provided to support the accusations." I don't understand the tone of this post. I guess the implication is that whistleblower support relies on the political leanings of the people involved? Is it my politics talking if I say that the scale of t…

I think what you & the other downvoters are illustrating is:

You can only be a 'whistleblower' if you're on MY side.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#202

Post by AlbertCory »

crazygringo wrote: post #168
AlbertCory wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are the "Thousands" of others?

I'm assuming that if you counted every potential whistleblower in the US that was ever reported on in the national or local news over the past few decades, it would probably add up to something in the thousands?

In other words, you don't have any basis for that number you threw out.

Can there be a whistleblower exposing some official you like? Please give some examples of those.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#203

Post by pastacacioepepe »

nullityrofl wrote: post #195
pastacacioepepe wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was in fact a small reaction[0][1] and it's naive to think that the espionage systems and efforts USA and European countries have are in any way comparable. > Because they're all doing it too. Any attempts at retaliation what have been hypocritical and met with callouts. Source? I can tell you already there is none. We have plenty of evidence that the USA is spying Europe and other allies, none of the opposite.…

You mean like Europe's use of Pegasus? https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/europe-spyware-scandal-...

> Multiple European governments are using advanced surveillance tools to spy on their own people

As I've already answered you on another comment and as the very first line of the article you shared points out, Pegasus has been used for domestic espionage. The issue at hand is foreign espionage.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#204

Post by nullityrofl »

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #203
nullityrofl wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like Europe's use of Pegasus? https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/europe-spyware-scandal-...

> Multiple European governments are using advanced surveillance tools to spy on their own people As I've already answered you on another comment and as the very first line of the article you shared points out, Pegasus has been used for domestic espionage. The issue at hand is foreign espionage.

Ah, you think that the EU spies on their own citizens but is above spying on allies? Allies not OK, citizens OK?

Like how Denmark helped the US spy on the EU?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/31/denmark-helped...

Yes, EU nations are somehow totally incapable of a thing every country is doing. That is naive.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#205

Post by Consultant32452 »

jiggywiggy wrote: post #169
paulmd wrote: post #71

Whistleblowers act against power structures and that's the ultimate transgression as far as the power structure is concerned. Transgressions in favor of the state are one thing, you'll get a slap on the wrist at most, even personal benefit and promotion in some cases, but transgressions against the state are what will provoke a real response. See, for example, the incredible vigor pursued against the people who relea…

What makes it worse is, whistleblowers are trouble makers often. They are difficult people, at best like Snowden, they lay low. It makes it easier to dismiss them. Why? Because people who are good and social with the group do not have a contrarian character. To whistleblow against a very powerful organisation, like the NSA, you have to be a pain in the ass. I don't mean that in a bad way. Normal sociable people just…

[flagged]

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#206

Post by pastacacioepepe »

nullityrofl wrote: post #204
pastacacioepepe wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Multiple European governments are using advanced surveillance tools to spy on their own people As I've already answered you on another comment and as the very first line of the article you shared points out, Pegasus has been used for domestic espionage. The issue at hand is foreign espionage.

Ah, you think that the EU spies on their own citizens but is above spying on allies? Allies not OK, citizens OK? Like how Denmark helped the US spy on the EU? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/31/denmark-helped... Yes, EU nations are somehow totally incapable of a thing every country is doing. That is naive.

> Ah, you think that the EU spies on their own citizens but is above spying on allies?

Provide evidence please, but we both know there is none.

> Like how Denmark helped the US spy on the EU?

Yet another case of the US spying on its allies.

Edit: You keep editing your comment so it's hard to properly answer.

> Allies not OK, citizens OK?

I've already wrote you here[0] that I find both cases despicable, but we're simply talking about US foreign espionage here.

.0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35765353

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#208

Post by kodah »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #156
kodah wrote: post #137

The article only mentions her as a picture (on purpose, I'm sure), but I'd like to take a second to address this: Chelsea Manning is a very bad example of a whistleblower. First, she didn't reveal anything new . All the information that was produced was previously known. Second, she was releasing documents because she was angry that she was deployed. Third, she didn't even attempt to use the whistle blowing process i…

>First, she didn't reveal anything new. All the information that was produced was previously known Just as a start, the Iraq War logs detailed fifteen thousand previously unknown civilian deaths. While you can argue we knew our military was doing terrible stuff, without her leaks it wouldn't have been clear what terrible stuff they were doing. >Second, she was releasing documents because she was angry that she was de…

> While you can argue we knew our military was doing terrible stuff, without her leaks it wouldn't have been clear what terrible stuff they were doing.

The Iraq war logs weren't even mostly about us. They were mostly about our partners. Her testimony aligns to what those databases were for. [1]

> Source? While I'm not 100% clear what her motivations were, I've never heard that claim.

I was trying to find the chat logs from IRC that make that situation a lot more emblematic. She was having relationship issues at the time and was demurred by long deployment times/work. (To her credit, I did a similar deployment for roughly a year and they are exhausting) In her testimony she glosses over much of what was in the chat logs, instead trying to explain her actions from a place of promoting "national discourse".

The helicopter gunship situation is accurate. If there's anything she released that was useful it was that.

1: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/01/bradley-mannin...

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#209

Post by nullityrofl »

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #192
nullityrofl wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already well known that many EU nations have capabilities like this. The French: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/04/france-electro... The Germans: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-arrests-foreign... Lets not forget that most of the EU is wrapped up in the Pegasus spy scandal: https://www.dw.com/en/eu-watergate-the-pegasus-spyware-scand... Playing holier than thou with intelligence services…

These are all examples of EU countries doing domestic, not foreign espionage (which is also despicable, by the way). You can search all you want but there is no evidence or proof whatsoever of EU countries spying USA top government officials. The question here is how can you call yourself an ally in good faith when you spy on your allies?

The fact that it has not been leaked is not proof of the negative. The US had been spying on Europe for 50+ years before Snowden and the US continues to spy on Europe right now without any further leaks -- by your logic that must mean that the US isn't currently spying on the EU, right, or there would be leaks?

There's plenty of evidence of the EU spying on allies. I can't tell if your implication is "Europe can't maintain smart enough computer scientists and engineers capable of spying on the US" or "Europe has the moral high ground and doesn't spy on allies".

Both are naive.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#210

Post by throwrqX »

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #192
nullityrofl wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already well known that many EU nations have capabilities like this. The French: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/04/france-electro... The Germans: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-arrests-foreign... Lets not forget that most of the EU is wrapped up in the Pegasus spy scandal: https://www.dw.com/en/eu-watergate-the-pegasus-spyware-scand... Playing holier than thou with intelligence services…

These are all examples of EU countries doing domestic, not foreign espionage (which is also despicable, by the way). You can search all you want but there is no evidence or proof whatsoever of EU countries spying USA top government officials. The question here is how can you call yourself an ally in good faith when you spy on your allies?

> You can search all you want but there is no evidence or proof whatsoever of EU countries spying USA top government officials.

Nonsense. https://www.france24.com/en/20131024-nsa-france-spying-squar... https://www.dw.com/en/german-intelligence-spied-on-white-hou...

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