A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs • Hacker News Board

Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#101

Post by srj » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 6:12 PM UTC

JKCalhoun wrote: post #8

> In a statement, Meta spokesman Dave Arnold said the conditions that led to the layoffs are “well known and reverberating throughout the industry.” Sad that you can get away with a statement like that.

Our leadership had no vision beyond doubling down on VR and doing a complete copy and paste of TikTok. Meanwhile our middle managers hired as many people as possible to justify their own promotions, as everyone is too lazy to consider impact beyond # of reports and there's no accountability. Finally, due to the above, we laid off many ICs.

I guess that's what he meant?

Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#102

Post by irrational » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 6:13 PM UTC

b112 wrote: post #82

irrational wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So I find it totally plausible that a huge amount of people would spend large amounts of time in a more immersive virtual world I, on the other hand, know nobody that uses virtual worlds. I find it plausible that a tiny amount of people would spend large amounts of time in a more immersive virtual world. I find it completely implausible that a huge amount of people would.

I find it completely implausible that a huge amount of people would. But people already do. Email, Facebook, twitter, messaging, slack, all of it, is by no means real, human interaction. It is a step away from that. Some even say that this type of interaction is so fake, so filled with disinformation, and algorithmic monkeying, that it is toxic poison . Yet people will be with friends at a restaurant, or hanging out,…

None of those things you mentioned are an immersive virtual world, at least not by how I understand that concept.

Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#103

Post by justrealist » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 6:17 PM UTC

bastardoperator wrote: post #9

mtsolitary wrote: post #3

He did also build it though…

If we want to forget about the other 3 co-founders that were basically robbed by Zuckerberg then sure, he built it all by himself.

None of them were technical. To the extent they contributed, it was either irrelevant to execution or simply a vaporware idea they had no ability to make happen (the twins).

Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#104

Post by bryanrasmussen » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 6:18 PM UTC

kibwen wrote: post #53

monero-xmr wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take the entire breadth of my lived experience when trying to predict the future, and I place high value on anecdata. My strategies have served me well thus far, but if you want to outsource all of your thinking to “experts”, good luck to you.

You don't need to "outsource all of your thinking to experts" to understand that data is not the plural of anecdote. I, too, know people who met their future spouse online. However, after meeting online, they invariably meet in person before getting married, and then live together after getting married. Even the most plugged-in exemplars of the metaverse can't escape from the desire to interact outside of it.

recurring reminder - the original quote is "the plural of anecdote is data" http://blog.danwin.com/don-t-forget-the-plural-of-anecdote-i...

Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#105

Post by johngalt_ » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 6:19 PM UTC

908B64B197 wrote: post #28

neel8986 wrote: post #12

Meta is still a 600B company and large credit goes to Zukerberg. His insight into jumping to mobile at the very beginning, making critical acquisitions, relentlessly going to new geographies, investment in AI all played off. Every major company made mistake including Google ( Google Plus ), Microsoft ( Windows phone ) and apple ( entire 90s ). A company making mistake just means they are still taking risks and not sa…

> Just one or two cycle hardware innovation may make VR successful. They already achieved something like a 10x cost reduction with the Quest in a few HW generations. I think their worse mistake was tying up Oculus devices to Facebook accounts. Oculus should have stayed a separate platform with minimal ties to Facebook with it's own social features.

How requiring a Facebook account to use Oculus was their worst mistake? I get it that a few people might be bothered by that, but most people don't care.

Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#106

Post by khazhoux » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 6:22 PM UTC

kibwen wrote: post #53

monero-xmr wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take the entire breadth of my lived experience when trying to predict the future, and I place high value on anecdata. My strategies have served me well thus far, but if you want to outsource all of your thinking to “experts”, good luck to you.

You don't need to "outsource all of your thinking to experts" to understand that data is not the plural of anecdote. I, too, know people who met their future spouse online. However, after meeting online, they invariably meet in person before getting married, and then live together after getting married. Even the most plugged-in exemplars of the metaverse can't escape from the desire to interact outside of it.

And yet, while HN places zero trust in anecdata and personal observation, it it critical in real life decision-making. Most mega-successful entrepreneurs got there by trusting their instincts, not disregarding their own observations and instead only ever searching for studies conducted by others.

So while I agree with your point overall, I think here on HN we're too quick to dismiss people's personal stories.

Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#107

Post by Wowfunhappy » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 6:24 PM UTC

cesarb wrote: post #100

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The applications of AR are obvious, but I don't think the technology to make it generally useful exists. You need a device which: --- 1. Looks normal, or at least relatively normal. (I'm not actually convinced the "at least" part is sufficient.) 2. Is comfortable to wear for extended periods. (Not too heavy, not too much heat, etc.) 3. Has a battery which can last most of the day. 4. Has lenses which are transparent,…

Playing devil's advocate: a lot of your requirements become easier if you allow for tethering to one or more devices on your belt, or even on a backpack, through a discreet cable behind the ear. The hardest part is probably #4 (the lenses and projector) combined with #1 (looking normal).

My initial reaction is "that cable would have to be pretty darn discreet"—but I suppose wired headphones became normalized enough. I feel like there's an inherent difference in level-of-weirdness when the cable is attached to something on your eyes versus your ears, but maybe culture would adapt. Personally, I wouldn't want to bet my company on it.

Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#108

Post by julianeon » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 6:32 PM UTC

quantumwoke wrote: post #5

For me the big turning point at Meta was the acquisition of Oculus. At the time, it was great, forward-thinking and gave everyone a lot of hope for the future of Meta and even society if you believed the hype. This peaked at about 2020 when the opportunity for VR and remote work became real and necessary due to an unprecedented pandemic. However, we all know the rest; hyperfocus on VR to the detriment of the rest of…

Every time I see these numbers about how much Meta is losing per year on VR - 6 billion, 10 billion, etc. - I look up the valuation of Roblox.

Answer: about 20 billion.

They should’ve just acquired Roblox - for the price of WhatsApp! - and gotten unquestioned ownership of the leading young gamer audience, and a fully functioning “Metaverse” (if you want call it that), in one fell swoop.

It sounds like they’ve already spent more than this for nothing tangible in return. Such a missed opportunity.

Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#109

Post by tensor » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 6:35 PM UTC

nine_k wrote: post #80

fyrn_ wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They own the mobile platforms because they blazed the trail as you put it. That was the prize they were competing for, Meta was late with the HTC First / Facebook phone, and so they lost. Of course they would have liked to own their own little mobile fiefdom, they are incredibly valuable platforms

I honestly don't think there is a room for a third commercial mobile platform, after Apple started the smartphone market, and Google caught up soon enough after. Even strong and entrenched players like Palm, Nokia (with Tizen) and even BlackBerry could not hold. In 2007, Facebook was way, way less mighty, and by 2012, it was late. Speaking of Windows Phone: it had great hardware and good, innovative software. It's Mi…

Was it really Microsoft that killed Windows phone? Or was it simply just too late. By the time it was really available I'm not sure there was actually a chance for a third platform to survive.

Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#110

Post by grumbel » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 6:35 PM UTC

muglug wrote: post #20

neel8986 wrote: post #12

Meta is still a 600B company and large credit goes to Zukerberg. His insight into jumping to mobile at the very beginning, making critical acquisitions, relentlessly going to new geographies, investment in AI all played off. Every major company made mistake including Google ( Google Plus ), Microsoft ( Windows phone ) and apple ( entire 90s ). A company making mistake just means they are still taking risks and not sa…

The problem of VR goes beyond hardware innovation: most people don’t want to completely shut themselves off from the world for hours on end.

That's solvable, just add proper stereo pass-through cameras to turn the VR headset into an AR headset. The Lenovo Mirage Solo[1] had that four years ago, due to the death of the whole Daydream platform it didn't see much use outside of YoutubeVR, but there it works great. You just hit a button and you can see the world around you while watching Youtube.

Quest2 has been adding similar functionality over the last year, though the image quality of the pass-through still leaves a lot to be desired, but that can be fixed in future headsets.

Depths sensors will also make they way into headsets sooner or later and allow much more flexible integration between real world and virtual objects. Hololens could do that years ago, but the VR space still needs to do some catch up.

[1] https://www.uploadvr.com/mirage-solo-is-getting-pass-through...