I've thought about blowing the whistle but I'm honestly too afraid. Even if I do, nothing changes. Companies get tiny fines and executives keep their bonuses, yet the whistle-blower's life is ruined.
Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely
171–180 of 510 posts
Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a non-USAer I'm so glad he went beyond domestic spying. He showed the world how the USA spied on many of its supposed allies. The scope of the system of espionage they built is orwellian and just astonishing. If there is one evil force conspiring for global domination that is the NSA and whichever institution they take order from. Thanks again, Snowden. What I don't understand is the complete lack of response from…
As a non-USAer, I strongly disagree. There are probably a handful of other countries watching you right now (in a broad, abstract sense) and the USA is the least of our concerns. There is a reason why nothing significant came out of it: every other country knows that this is happening (not exactly but roughly) and they know there are much worse problems to worry about, given other strong international players such as…
This isn't about removing the USA from the board, this is about letting the truth out. That thing we claim to base our democracies upon.
Your argument boils down to giving up our supposedly better values in order to defeat the "evil guys".
I also refuse to accept that our future is under the hegemony of any single nation. So far the only country we have proof of going for hegemony is the USA. Russia and China are concerned with their borders and it's trivial to verify my assessment Is correct. Just compare military expenses and amount of military bases owned across the world.
Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
This has nothing to do with Trump per se, it's really a bipartisan issue, as the new pentagon leaks just confirmed. I also doubt European countries have the capacity to intercept private calls between top level USA govt officials.
What makes you think that they don't? They surely would keep that capability secret.
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They surely would keep that capability secret.
Like the USA itself couldn't? Strongly doubt, the amount of recent leaks we're just discussing proves me right. No nation could have such an espionage system in place without it ever leaking out in some way.
Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely
#174Whistleblowers act against power structures and that's the ultimate transgression as far as the power structure is concerned. Transgressions in favor of the state are one thing, you'll get a slap on the wrist at most, even personal benefit and promotion in some cases, but transgressions against the state are what will provoke a real response. See, for example, the incredible vigor pursued against the people who relea…
The narrative weirdly lacks, why his leak was "against power structures".
The spin of the story has it, it was all about "spying against illegal activity". While really all that spying is just part of the objective to actively influence states. Not only passively observing your neighbors under the shower. Particularly civil societies. Of "allies" at first, but conveniently, you have five eyes, looking at each other.
You don't in all seriousness spy on foreign leaders to "uncover child trafficking" or manipulate YT to "counter terrorism". Foiled plots are few and far between. Mass media manipulation and economic exploitation persist and are commonplace.
A democratic society not subject to tight control seemingly is a very scary thing. Even more so when it is your own.
Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely
#175The article only mentions her as a picture (on purpose, I'm sure), but I'd like to take a second to address this: Chelsea Manning is a very bad example of a whistleblower. First, she didn't reveal anything new . All the information that was produced was previously known. Second, she was releasing documents because she was angry that she was deployed. Third, she didn't even attempt to use the whistle blowing process i…
> whistle blowing process in the military
I was also in the military, and can tell you if she had complained no one would have cared and probably would have just gotten her into more trouble. Whistleblowing to the military chain of command is just for stuff like if your CO is stealing money or your LT is coercing a sailor into a sexual relationship, not for stuff that makes the military look bad. The stuff Manning released was definitely not stuff you would take to 'mast'.
Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's exactly the problem. You know they are speaking an essential truth when you look at the feathers ruffled by Snowden, Assange and those who follow in their path. They will get their due acclaim if we're lucky to have a more moral and free society in the future.
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This is a false dichotomy. The very concept of freedom is based on a moral philosophy.
Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a non-USAer I'm so glad he went beyond domestic spying. He showed the world how the USA spied on many of its supposed allies. The scope of the system of espionage they built is orwellian and just astonishing. If there is one evil force conspiring for global domination that is the NSA and whichever institution they take order from. Thanks again, Snowden. What I don't understand is the complete lack of response from…
Meh, countries know they spy on each other. Sometimes they even use those processes to move information, just a different version of Nixon’s “For god’s sake, would someone leak this already?”
Ok, then why punish whistleblowers so harshly? Countries should consider it a useful public service.
Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a non-USAer I'm so glad he went beyond domestic spying. He showed the world how the USA spied on many of its supposed allies. The scope of the system of espionage they built is orwellian and just astonishing. If there is one evil force conspiring for global domination that is the NSA and whichever institution they take order from. Thanks again, Snowden. What I don't understand is the complete lack of response from…
As a non-USAer, I strongly disagree. There are probably a handful of other countries watching you right now (in a broad, abstract sense) and the USA is the least of our concerns. There is a reason why nothing significant came out of it: every other country knows that this is happening (not exactly but roughly) and they know there are much worse problems to worry about, given other strong international players such as…
As a person living in Sweden, it seems that my most immediate concern is USA. They are the ones that can ask the swedish government to make up some BS accusations to arrest me and eventually ship me to USA where I will be tortured.
Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely
#179Whistleblowers act against power structures and that's the ultimate transgression as far as the power structure is concerned. Transgressions in favor of the state are one thing, you'll get a slap on the wrist at most, even personal benefit and promotion in some cases, but transgressions against the state are what will provoke a real response. See, for example, the incredible vigor pursued against the people who relea…
The narrative weirdly lacks, why his leak was "against power structures". The spin of the story has it, it was all about "spying against illegal activity". While really all that spying is just part of the objective to actively influence states . Not only passively observing your neighbors under the shower. Particularly civil societies. Of "allies" at first, but conveniently, you have five eyes, looking at each other.…
>The spin of the story has it, it was all about "spying against illegal activity".
Doing anything against the current government is illegal in every country and always has been. The US rebelling against British rule was also illegal at the time.
>A democratic society not subject to tight control seemingly is a very scary thing. Even more so when it is your own.
Again, the "who watches the watchmen" question. Most of our western democracies are lacking checks and bounds. We can only vote who represents us, but we can't vote for what they do when in power. If we disagree with them we have to wait ~4 more years before we can vote them out. In that time they can do an insane amount of irreversible damage and there's no consequences for them.
Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree that he did it in the least destructive way possible. He revealed far more secrets than were necessary to blow the whistle. Just take a look at the list of secrets he revealed. Most of them are not about domestic spying at all: https://www.lawfareblog.com/snowden-revelations If he wanted to blow the whistle on domestic spying, he could have shared documents with journalists about domestic spying.
As a non-USAer I'm so glad he went beyond domestic spying. He showed the world how the USA spied on many of its supposed allies. The scope of the system of espionage they built is orwellian and just astonishing. If there is one evil force conspiring for global domination that is the NSA and whichever institution they take order from. Thanks again, Snowden. What I don't understand is the complete lack of response from…
> What I don't understand is the complete lack of response from countries like Italy and Germany once they found out being spied by an ally.
Because they're all doing it too. Any attempts at retaliation what have been hypocritical and met with callouts.
EDIT: Since this is news to some people who seem to think that the entirety of Europe is on a moral high horse, here's some references. There's little morality in intelligence.
Europe spies on its own citizens: https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/europe-spyware-scandal-...
Germany helped the US spy on EU allies: https://www.dw.com/en/parliamentary-report-finds-spying-by-b...
France admits they spied on the US: https://www.france24.com/en/20131024-nsa-france-spying-squar...
Germany was found to be spying on the US: https://www.dw.com/en/german-intelligence-spied-on-white-hou...
The Dutch helped the US spy on the EU: https://www.dw.com/en/danish-secret-service-helped-us-spy-on...