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A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

washingtonpost.com

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Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#91

Post by b112 »

kibwen wrote: post #54
jstanley wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100 years ago people would have said the same about having the internet in your house and using the computer of an evening. In the future, if everything you care about is in VR, then not being in VR would be shutting yourself off from the world, the same as not using the internet is shutting oneself off from the world today (for some of us).

A future where "everything that you care about is in VR" describes a hellish dystopia. Even in a future where humans spend large amounts of time in virtual spaces, our meat bodies still appreciate going for walks in the park.

A future where "everything that you care about is in VR" describes a hellish dystopia

Isn't that the way it is now? Used to be, you'd all get together at the town hall, to discuss problems with the city.

Now people use twitter and Facebook, and community involvement is at an all time low.

We're already in VR version 1. Nothing online is "real"!

In VR2 people will still go for walks in the park, but just as now, where everone is walking and staring at their phone, people will be in VR2 while walking their dog.

Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#92

Post by practice9 »

kibwen wrote: post #54
jstanley wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100 years ago people would have said the same about having the internet in your house and using the computer of an evening. In the future, if everything you care about is in VR, then not being in VR would be shutting yourself off from the world, the same as not using the internet is shutting oneself off from the world today (for some of us).

A future where "everything that you care about is in VR" describes a hellish dystopia. Even in a future where humans spend large amounts of time in virtual spaces, our meat bodies still appreciate going for walks in the park.

To the defence of VR, most of the experiences encourage standing up and moving. Whereas laptops, desktop monitors, phones are back / neck / arm-killing machines, as ergonomics are the last thing companies are thinking about and customer does not really care until they start having health problems.

To be fair Meta's VR headsets are pretty heavy, which is also bad for the neck, but evolutional pressure will bring the futures headsets' weight down, as ergonomics is on a critical path for these devices adoption.

Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#93

Post by berberous »

rubicon33 wrote: post #59
tsimionescu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any kind of indication VR (or its cousin, AR) is important to any extent? Everything I know suggests it's a niche technology that has little chance of becoming anything but a niche technology. It's not made any significant headway in gaming, in entertainment of other kinds, nor in general business settings. There are some specialist domains where 3D visualization is worth the cost and inconvenience, but it s…

I've been a strong advocate for VR since 2016. Over the last 6+ years I've managed to convince family and friends to all jump in and pickup VR, mostly the Quest 2. What I can say is, the vast majority of them don't use their headset at all anymore. It sits on a shelf collecting dust, out of batteries, only to be picked up on the extremely rare occasion where they want to try it out again, and then after about 30-45 m…

It’s still early. Within 10 years, I’d be surprised if headsets and software haven’t improved enough that it’s reached a tipping point where many more people do use it consistently.

Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#94

Post by dasil003 »

darkwizard42 wrote: post #71

I can't take this article seriously. They are having a hard time hiring in 2022-2023 because of the scandal of 2016?? Facebook remains one of the TOP landing spots for any engineer still. The rep might be tarnished a bit, but you would be doing yourself a disservice if your company wouldn't consider an engineer with 2-5 years of senior SWE experience from FB. EVEN after the stock downturn it remains near the top in p…

Definitely agree that this kind of media narrative is ChatGPT-level of arbitrary free association that leads to completely nonsensical conclusions. You're also right that FB is still a strong resume signal. That said, I think FAANG reputation has been slowly diluting for a while, and significantly diluted from the over-hiring during the pandemic. The bottom line is the hiring process creates a floor in terms of raw coding ability, but says very little about their ability to drive impact in companies with a lesser warchest of technical talent. The average FAANG engineer is standing on the shoulders of giants at best, and coasting at worst. Being able to deal with a large technical bureaucracy is probably the most consistently reliable signal that a FAANG tenure gives you, but that's not what most hiring managers at companies with lesser tech brand recognition are actually looking for. They're probably imagining something like the scrappiness of folks that built Google from 2000-2005, or Facebook from 2005-2010. Of course those folks still exist, but they're a lot thinner on the ground relative to the massive headcount they have today.

Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#95

Post by yarg »

dnissley wrote: post #81
bink wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their focus on making Facebook for mobile platforms was smart, their efforts to make a mobile phone were late and substandard. By critical acquisitions I assume you mean Instagram and WhatsApp. Both were anti-competitive attempts to stave off becoming the next MySpace (but also successful). Everything else on the list of acquisitions looks like gambles that did not pay off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_merge…

> their efforts to make a mobile phone were late and substandard Meta was in its infancy when the mobile hardware revolution was happening. Do you really think they stood a chance of creating their own hardware platform while simultaneously adapting their existing software platform to the new paradigm? According to a google search they had 850 employees in 2008. Apple had 32000. > It's not that they are speculating o…

> Do you really think they stood a chance of creating their own hardware platform while simultaneously adapting their existing software platform to the new paradigm?

Then they should have realised that it was a bad idea.

Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#96

Post by spacemadness »

b112 wrote: post #82
irrational wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So I find it totally plausible that a huge amount of people would spend large amounts of time in a more immersive virtual world I, on the other hand, know nobody that uses virtual worlds. I find it plausible that a tiny amount of people would spend large amounts of time in a more immersive virtual world. I find it completely implausible that a huge amount of people would.

I find it completely implausible that a huge amount of people would. But people already do. Email, Facebook, twitter, messaging, slack, all of it, is by no means real, human interaction. It is a step away from that. Some even say that this type of interaction is so fake, so filled with disinformation, and algorithmic monkeying, that it is toxic poison . Yet people will be with friends at a restaurant, or hanging out,…

It’s a huge jump from what you mentioned rather than a “small step away.” (I see you edited your post, but I’m sticking with the original quote) Everything you mentioned can be done in short spurts of time and interwoven with other parts of someones life. VR as it stands today is way too burdensome and all consuming to pull that off. I’m not even getting into the additional hardware costs.

Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#97

Post by sersi »

amerkhalid wrote: post #74
muglug wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem of VR goes beyond hardware innovation: most people don’t want to completely shut themselves off from the world for hours on end.

I sold my Quest 2 because I rarely ever used after initial honeymoon period. It was clunky and required too much preparation before put it on. But I am looking forward to Quest 3. Because I really miss the part of completely shutting off from my surroundings and being transported elsewhere. And really enjoyed random conversations in Table Tennis game and in their VR World thing. Only after selling it, I realized how…

That's exactly my feeling, I have a valve index and got my parents a quest. It's still new technology, it's still clunky but it will get better and I've had really amazing moments with VR.

I think the Meta beta is correct long term. It might be too early right now but I think long term, it's the correct move

Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#98

Post by lowbloodsugar »

>“What was special about Meta was the trust. We drank the Kool-Aid and really felt like it was our company [and] even willingly defended it when everyone said we were evil incarnate,” one current employee said. “But that’s been shattered, so it feels like a betrayal.”

So as long as we're getting paid to be evil, we're ok with that, but when the total disregard for other people is directed at us, well we're upset.

Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#99

Post by darkwizard42 »

dasil003 wrote: post #94
darkwizard42 wrote: post #71

I can't take this article seriously. They are having a hard time hiring in 2022-2023 because of the scandal of 2016?? Facebook remains one of the TOP landing spots for any engineer still. The rep might be tarnished a bit, but you would be doing yourself a disservice if your company wouldn't consider an engineer with 2-5 years of senior SWE experience from FB. EVEN after the stock downturn it remains near the top in p…

Definitely agree that this kind of media narrative is ChatGPT-level of arbitrary free association that leads to completely nonsensical conclusions. You're also right that FB is still a strong resume signal. That said, I think FAANG reputation has been slowly diluting for a while, and significantly diluted from the over-hiring during the pandemic. The bottom line is the hiring process creates a floor in terms of raw c…

100% agree that the gleam of a FAANG engineer is more lackluster these days. From the well-known bureaucracy, the wealth of internal tools, and slower release cycles, engineers from FAANG are sometimes a liability to a startup/smaller company. I think though they remain above average engineers who IF they are able to pivot back into execution mode and integrate well are still worth it (and by worth it I mean going a little above your comp band to hire them).

+1 to your point that FAANG tenure is probably best for Series C/D startups who need someone who has experience in big teams.

Re: A morale crisis after multiple Meta layoffs

#100

Post by cesarb »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #84
timbit42 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VR will be huge for gaming and other more niche things, but AR will be what people use all day, every day in their lives. Meta is focused too much on VR when they are not a gaming company. They should be focused on AR. They will be playing catch up with Apple when Apple released their AR.

The applications of AR are obvious, but I don't think the technology to make it generally useful exists. You need a device which: --- 1. Looks normal, or at least relatively normal. (I'm not actually convinced the "at least" part is sufficient.) 2. Is comfortable to wear for extended periods. (Not too heavy, not too much heat, etc.) 3. Has a battery which can last most of the day. 4. Has lenses which are transparent,…

Playing devil's advocate: a lot of your requirements become easier if you allow for tethering to one or more devices on your belt, or even on a backpack, through a discreet cable behind the ear. The hardest part is probably #4 (the lenses and projector) combined with #1 (looking normal).
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