Live data from Hacker News

Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

covertactionmagazine.com

101–110 of 510 posts

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. He worked with journalists to try the make the leak safe. Let’s focus on impact- Now everyone is at least aware that digital activities are under surveillance including phone call metadata. We have made that trade off for some security. Thank you Snowden.

Perhaps the most horrifying aspect of the whole Snowden ordeal was not discovering hard proof we've been living in a borderline-Orwellian surveillance state, but the utter indifference of the American people at this revelation.

Look at literally any poll on this issue. Here [1] is one from late 2019 from Pew. 66% of Americans think the risks of government data collection outweigh the benefits, fewer than 25% think they benefit from such behavior. And almost nobody knows what the government is doing with all of this information they're collecting.

It's certainly not indifference, it's that our media and democracy aren't really functioning properly. I can go look at any news site and regardless of the site's political bias - there's a recurring theme. You'll see lots of pro war stuff and lots stuff on topics that makes people really dislike each other. But these sort of issues where people overwhelmingly feel one way, and the political establishment feels another? Yeah, those are all strangely absent.

And come next year? These same topics will receive about as much coverage as COBOL at a hot trends in computing conference. Instead we'll get two people each telling you to vote for them because the other guy's awful. The one bright side is we can safely say that they're both right.

[1] - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/11/15/key-takea...

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#102
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm about 3/4 through the page and it's all related to spying to me.. are you specifically referring to something?

Spying is what the NSA is supposed to do Domestic spying is the controversial/illegal activity he was blowing the whistle on. Dumping info on legal NSA activities (like foreign surveillance), while fascinating to read, is not whistleblowing.

I think it's fair to say that the extent of the spying on global citizens being so absurdly extreme was also worth whistleblowing - it's not location of hidden bases and spies, it's that General Dynamics " collect the contents or metadata of all cell phone calls in the Bahamas, Mexico, the Philippines, and Kenya. The Australian Signals Directorate has cooperated with NSA on the collection in the Philippines" and so on.

Being Canadian, I see him as a whistleblower as well, since the extent of canadian surveillance was also revealed.

I'd argue it's even better that he did the jobs of multiple whistleblowers by sharing the extent of domestic spying in other countries. No need to wait years for other people to put their lives in jeopardy.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#103
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know the saying beggars can't be choosers? We are currently begging for transparency. The filtering process by independent journalists is the only actual recourse I can think of to solve this. Exfiltrating confidential documents is usually not a process that gives you a lot of time to sort out what is worth it or not, furthermore the volume of data might very well also be a problem to handle on your own. Consider…

> We are currently begging for transparency. Beware, transparency is a double-edged sword! Modern nations are not small villages, where secrets can be shared within a community AND kept out of reach from foreign ears.

I am not advocating for total transparency, but exactions committed by the state cannot be classified as secrets.

So if a leak leads to revealing such crimes, the whistle-blower should not be prosecuted, unless you can prove they deliberately leaked information to harm innocent civilians.

I specifically say civilians because I consider that the military and officials who are part of the state know the responsibilities involved in their position... and if they do not generate any content worthy of leaking (crimes), they will not be exposed to this risk.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#104
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who gives a shit about the IRS taking not enough cash from one guy? That's a shit hill to die on don't you think?

Thanks for role-playing the whistleblower's experience for us.

Anytime

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#105

How about the guy right now who's blowing the whistle on favored IRS treatment of Hunter Biden? Does he count, too? https://abcnews.go.com/US/irs-whistleblower-told-congress-hu...

He is a potential whistleblower.

Your linked article says: "[My client] would like to make protected whistleblower disclosures to Congress." "[T]here are no specific examples provided to support the accusations."

I don't understand the tone of this post. I guess the implication is that whistleblower support relies on the political leanings of the people involved?

Is it my politics talking if I say that the scale of this argument is completely underwhelming to me given the level of true atrocities being committed in the world?

The article details 'incredible' examples of retaliation. That's the biggest concern here, not the whistleblowing.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#106
post #99
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He fled to the country with directions from russia before releasing the classified Intel.

Nonsense. He gave the material to Greenwald and a Guardian journalist in Hong Kong. He stayed in Hong Kong for a while, and when it became apparent that he could not go to other countries he went to Russia. Whether the Guardian published the info after that is irrelevant. Also note that Greenwald asked him to publish anonymously, which Snowden declined. Anyway, the U.S. could pardon him and he would go back. All thes…

> Nonsense. He gave the material to Greenwald and a Guardian journalist in Hong Kong. He stayed in Hong Kong for a while, and when it became apparent that he could not go to other countries he went to Russia.

Is that just another way of saying he fled the country before releasing the stolen intelligence?

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#107

It’s a travesty that Edward Snowden is still a fugitive in the United States. James Clapper went in front of congress and lied about the scope of surveillance on US citizens. Snowden saw it as his moral obligation to expose those lies, and he did it in the least destructive way possible by leaking the evidence to qualified journalists.

James Clapper needs to be cuffed and perp-walked in front of the TV cameras, for so many things besides this.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#108
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Greenwald there were millions of pages, largely because everything from parking spaces to nuclear weapons were frivolously marked "top secret" in order to increase the perceived importance of bureaucrats. Snowden gave the pile to the Guardian (Greenwald and another journalist), who decided what to publish, which was a major task because of all the unimportant stuff. How could Snowden have gone through th…

[flagged]

That's one way to look at it. Another interpretation would be that he knew about specific things, assumed there were other bad things he hadn't learned about yet, and couldn't filter through it himself.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#109

Just look at this thread of “hackers” saying “well the law is the law.” It’s an embarrassment the degree to which smart educated leading edge communities have totally and utterly forfeited their own power for the security blanket of these domination based systems. Actually it’s worse, the official ethos of success in America is now some cynical mix of “If you’re not scamming someone you’re not trying” and “Altruism i…

Slashdot was a hacker forum, initially (prior to 1999). This has been a forum seen as an adjacency to a seed/VC incubator from the get-go.

People keeping to their roots and not going for the money like Richard Stallman are mocked. Steven Levy glorifies him in Hackers, then takes a break from books glorifying the Google corporation, and when Stallman is down delivers a coup de grace to Stallman in Wired, for soi disant very progressive reasons.

Of course Wired was founded by Rossetto as a continuation of the "New Right" project he was talking about in the New York Times in 1971.

I myself am not surprised that people wander out of their prep schools and universities into these corporations and hold these views. People's hegemonic ideas are borne from the material conditions and class relations they are in.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#110
post #35
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have examples of people who have been enriched by so-called whistleblowing?

I think Frances Haugen just wanted to be famous. She didn’t whistleblow anything really and yet called herself a whistleblower.

[flagged]
Post reply on HN