Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

British public support for monarchy at historic low, poll reveals

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 90 posts

Re: British public support for monarchy at historic low, poll reveals

#51

Post by skissane »

graeme wrote: post #19
mikestew wrote: post #9

“X% think the monarchy is ‘quite important’”, or summat. Next poll, please, please, please drill into why these folks think it is important. Because I’m trying to come up with something for which the monarchy is important, and I’m truly at a loss as a non-resident. EDIT: all great answers (except the snarky one) that gave me some insight, thanks.

I live in Canada. Some benefits of the monarchy vs the US system: * Much of the pomp and prestige of the state gets vested in the Governor General. Whereas in the US the president gets treated like a monarch * People swear allegiance to the monarchy and the state. They serve that rather than the leader * In the event the prime minister goes truly insane, there is an outside check on their power. People dismiss these…

> Much of the difference also comes down to parliamentary vs presidential system

Pretty much all the ways you mention in which the Canadian system is superior to the US system are nothing to do with monarchy vs republic at all, they are about parliamentary vs presidential. Canada would have all the same advantages if it became a parliamentary republic like Ireland or Germany.

Re: British public support for monarchy at historic low, poll reveals

#52

Post by edgyquant »

epilys wrote: post #20
haunter wrote: post #13

Yet I somehow think constitutional monarchies work. There is a reason (I don't know what) that the european ones are in the western richer + generally strong and high functioning democratic countries (Spain, UK, Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Luxembourg).

The reason is actually well known. It even has a name: imperialism.

Colonial empires were a net drag on the economies of these nations.

Re: British public support for monarchy at historic low, poll reveals

#53

Post by usrusr »

jleyank wrote: post #12
cal85 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they dial the ostentation back?

Their existence depends on the tolerance of the taxed. Burn that out and theyll have to work for a living. Edit as I can’t reply…. Japan’s royalty has been around far longer but isn’t particularly fancy. Denmark’s is similar in duration to the post Norman uk, similarly “mild”. People don’t like seeing such behaviour in lean times.

Are those monarchies even tax funded? A separation between private ("house") and state property is usually much older than even the earliest traces of democratization and when they got to where they are today without completely losing their formal status, the house property will have survived just fine. Apply the supposedly not-feudal-at-all mechanisms of free market to those (land-)lords and you get something generously funded by nothing but privileged birth.

Re: British public support for monarchy at historic low, poll reveals

#54

Post by skissane »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #3

Funny enough it feels like the popularity, if not support, of the monarchy has never been higher in Northern Ireland. Charles snubbed the DUP when he visited and now it's announced that the Irish language will be used during the coronation. We've been held under the thumb of these lunatics for so long that it's nice to see the same authority figures that they blindly adore step up and let them see their behavior is i…

> Funny enough it feels like the popularity, if not support, of the monarchy has never been higher in Northern Ireland.

A lot of that is about the Nationalist community feeling more confident, feeling that history is now on their side and they just have to wait out the inevitable. Demographic change is causing Catholics to outnumber Protestants. The future of the UK seems uncertain, Scottish independence may no longer be an immediate prospect, but its long-term odds (within the next few decades) seem quite decent, and Scottish independence when it eventually happens is likely to have a cascading effect on the stability of the UK as a whole, significantly increasing the odds of Irish unity. Sinn Fein could soon be running Dublin. The British monarchy begins to seem less a symbol of the hated oppressor, more like some charming elderly eccentric whom you know is not long for this world, and you might as well enjoy their hospitality in their last days.

Re: British public support for monarchy at historic low, poll reveals

#55

Post by Someone »

michaelt wrote: post #18
mikestew wrote: post #9

“X% think the monarchy is ‘quite important’”, or summat. Next poll, please, please, please drill into why these folks think it is important. Because I’m trying to come up with something for which the monarchy is important, and I’m truly at a loss as a non-resident. EDIT: all great answers (except the snarky one) that gave me some insight, thanks.

The strongest argument for the monarchy, in my experience, is the alternative is someone elected - and have you seen the people who get elected?

The presidents “whose names everybody knows” aren’t representative for the full set. In Germany or Austria, for example, presidents don’t have much power and the role doesn’t carry much grandeur and because of that, attracts different people.

Re: British public support for monarchy at historic low, poll reveals

#56

Post by D13Fd »

The popularity of the British monarchy in the US is a complete mystery to me.

Looking at it objectively, why should we like or support any monarch or monarchy?

Its anti-democratic. It’s not merit based. These people did nothing to earn their position—as were just born into it. The ceremonies and events are a drain on state resources. The monarchy as a whole is just the remnant of a system of government that spent hundreds of years dominating and suppressing other forms of government.

I really don’t get why they are so popular here.

Re: British public support for monarchy at historic low, poll reveals

#57

Post by etrautmann »

D13Fd wrote: post #56

The popularity of the British monarchy in the US is a complete mystery to me. Looking at it objectively, why should we like or support any monarch or monarchy? Its anti-democratic. It’s not merit based. These people did nothing to earn their position—as were just born into it. The ceremonies and events are a drain on state resources. The monarchy as a whole is just the remnant of a system of government that spent hun…

Likely an extension of American reverence for fame. There’s not too much difference between American examples of fame for fame’s sake and those born into the monarchy? Just a guess from someone as perplexed and uninterested as you.

Re: British public support for monarchy at historic low, poll reveals

#58

Post by D13Fd »

kzrdude wrote: post #42
option wrote: post #27

its 2023 why are there still kings and queens, who are quite literally above the law [enjoys sovereign immunity, meaning he can't be prosecuted under a civil or criminal investigation.]?

Compare with the US president. It's an elected office, but they are treated "like royalty". "The president is just a citizen" is an ideal for a republic, but it's pretty far from the case.

Some pretty big differences:

- The president is elected on his or her own merit.

- The president is treated like royalty for 4 years, then it ends.

- The president is subject to impeachment and prosecution for crimes.

- The president receives a very low salary and doesn’t get an ownership interest in any state resources.

Re: British public support for monarchy at historic low, poll reveals

#59

Post by cal85 »

fakedang wrote: post #38
cal85 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure. The most successful, enduring ‘royal family’ in the world appears to be the one that has been the most careful to conserve all the ostentation.

Well Japanese royalty is most certainly not ostentatious.

Fair point, enduring wasn’t the best word. But point is, the British one is a standout successful one, and also a standout ostentatious one. Every time there’s some big royal thing going on, people talk about how it’s too ostentatious and it will never survive like that, but revealed preferences seem to show that is its greatest strength.
Post reply on HN