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Why are lithium prices collapsing?

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Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#231

Post by rnk »

jtbayly wrote: post #222
api wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sublimated class resentment. People resent things that are perceived as coming down upon them from a coastal rich Ivy League educated elite that is perceived as holding them in contempt. It all just sounds like rich people in private jets flying around telling them to use less energy to save the planet. There is of course too much inequality, but it's not because of EVs or phasing out gas stoves.

“ perceived as holding them in contempt”? They have been told explicitly in prime time TV that they are held in contempt. It’s not an issue of perception on this front.

If you want to, you can find coastal elites that dislike anything, even say electric stoves. So what, why do people have all these grievances because of a sense that someone somewhere doesn't like their choices? I'm from the south, I'm positive people there don't like some of my my life choices, I don't go around feeling mad about it. Blaming coastal elites just seems like an excuse to ignore evidence of problematic choices - yet that view also probably doesn't help.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#232

Post by theK »

rhaway84773 wrote: post #192
simoncion wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can’t believe that actual people are that invested in burning hydrocarbons. Yeah, it's weird, right? Why _are_ people so invested in burning natgas and coal and other hydrocarbons for large-scale power generation when a plethora of proven near-zero-emissions alternatives exist? From a climate-change perspective, banning natgas cookstoves is a few pennies saved on like a thousand dollar expenditure. It's similar t…

There will be no “real dent”. You have to make small changes along with big changes. And banning natural gas piped infrastructure is an easy win. 1. No one is banning natural gas stoves. You can still use a natural gas stove. You just need to bring your own cylinder like most of the world and half the food YouTubers already do. 2. Natural gas stoves have significant indoor pollution impact. It’s a huge benefit even o…

That would be a good way to actually make a difference because it not only makes using gas for cooking less attractive but it also makes gas heating and gas powered industry significantly more inconvenient!

EDIT: would probably be a political nightmare to implement though…

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#233

Post by rnk »

theK wrote: post #228
bliteben wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a ge one loved it when it worked. The board died twice in 6 months. The Bosch one probably would have worked fine but for whatever reason it wasn't the look the spouse wanted. Even though I was fully onboard I could see the specific pan thing annoying some dedicated gas people. I’m back to gas and no longer have people boiling water so I can boil water.

Yeah, we are living through that horror as well, turns out roughly half of the people we know that have an induction stove ended up having either multiple replacements or live with the peculiarities of their unit. It’s not cheap stuff as well, one couple have a high end Miele one that goes completely haywire if anything drops on its surface and that is after getting one replacement and one “upgrade”…

I used an induction stove and it turned me into a Newt. But I got better.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#234

Post by pfdietz »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #199
vostok wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have any statistics on this, but I feel like I see far fewer plastic bags littering the streets these days. That alone is a win for me personally.

Give it time and you'll be seeing plenty of the reusable bags littering instead In theory they are supposed to be reusable but in practice I think they are going to wind up being single-use for most people. Maybe we'll start using them as garbage bags as they accumulate around the house.

I live in an area that's banned plastic bags. Given enough experience, grabbing a reusable bag out of the car before going into the store became an unconscious programmed action.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#235

Post by jwilk »

cma wrote: post #225
kibwen wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forget burning, even pumping gas to residences is itself a big source of emissions, because of how leaky the pipes are. Between two to seven percent of all gas put into the system is lost directly to the atmosphere, and it's a very potent greenhouse gas. One way or the other, it needs to go away. It's not performative, it's necessary for achieving long-term emissions goals, and it's low-hanging fruit.

> and it's a very potent greenhouse gas. It is still good to fix if it contributes to a significant amount of warming, but it isn't cumulative like CO2: it eventually degrades in the atmosphere.

It degrades to CO₂.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#237

Post by Scalestein »

rhaway84773 wrote: post #196
simoncion wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One way or the other, it needs to go away. Sure, agreed. > It's not performative... Right now it very much is because, as you say: > ...it's low-hanging fruit. As I said: > ...banning natgas cookstoves is a few pennies saved on like a thousand dollar expenditure. and > [Low-impact, high-visibility stuff like that is done because] it's way easier than making a real dent in the underlying problem If you'll pardon the…

Setting aside the validity of your claim that it’s just a “few Pennie’s on a thousand dollar expenditure (which I strongly disagree with…banning natural gas hookups would be worth it even if climate change wasn’t a problem). Your argument basically boils down to “I’m in debt and need to start spending thousands of dollars less. Cutting out this completely unnecessary expenditure will only save me a few dollars so I s…

I'd say a more accurate metaphor would be "I'm in debt and decided to ignore my biggest high interest loan in order to fully pay off my smallest low interest loan so I feel good about something"

Sure it's good you have less debt but while you were resolving the small loan you were racking up massive interest on the big one

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#238

Post by pfdietz »

jtbayly wrote: post #222
api wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sublimated class resentment. People resent things that are perceived as coming down upon them from a coastal rich Ivy League educated elite that is perceived as holding them in contempt. It all just sounds like rich people in private jets flying around telling them to use less energy to save the planet. There is of course too much inequality, but it's not because of EVs or phasing out gas stoves.

“ perceived as holding them in contempt”? They have been told explicitly in prime time TV that they are held in contempt. It’s not an issue of perception on this front.

They understand that the contempt is merited. It only makes them more angry.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#239

Post by pfdietz »

anamexis wrote: post #144
refurb wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's kind of a ridiculous argument. Sure, international corporations violate human rights, but unless you provide proof these lithium corporations are, then we can just assume they aren't.

Why would that be a reasonable assumption?

Hitchen's Razor?

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#240

Post by meristohm »

jdkoeck wrote: post #221
vegetablepotpie wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lithium is not the only cause of aquifer depletion in Chile, avocado farms have also been responsible for depleting the wells of residents [1]. These outcomes, as the article alludes to, are due to the privatization of resource rights, which is a consequence of Pinochet government going all in on the policies Milton Friedman promoted [2]. Citizens of Chile are more victims of neoliberalism than they are of any partic…

From wikipedia: « In 2010, Chile was the first nation in South America to win membership in the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development, an organization restricted to the world's richest countries » Victims of neoliberalism you say?

I would say the USA (where I grew up and still live, which doesn't make me a expert, mind- these are mostly just feelings) is also a victim of neoliberalism[0], and that people who revere President Reagan (USA) and Prime Minister Thatcher (UK) are generally selfish and inconsiderate of (what I see as) the importance of other life on earth whether or not we can directly benefit from it.

[0] https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

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