New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings • Hacker News Board

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#811

Post by macinjosh » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 2:16 PM UTC

ahoy wrote: post #445

iamdamian wrote: post #365

This regulation feels quite frustrating to me, and several comments in this thread illustrate why. This change is being promoted as a critical step in the fight against climate change. (See most news articles over the past two years covering this.) But when you dig into the details, it seems like the regulation may not have much effect on climate change at all. When you point this out to advocates, you'll get an enti…

I _rent_ a home, as do a full half of new york state residents. I'd love an electric stove. Every rental I've ever lived in has a gas stove and no fume hood. The full half of new yorkers who rent - almost 20 million people - mostly get whatever theirlandlord picked. So when I read posts like this, decrying government overreach, I wonder if you've ever been poor? Have you ever lived here? Do you know what youre talkin…

How does a gas stove make your landlord wealthier? What you are really saying is you want the entire world to adjust to your personal preferences, that is childish.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#812

Post by ihateyouall123 » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 2:17 PM UTC

ben_w wrote: post #707

JakeAl wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love my gas stove, won't live without one, and it keeps my home warm in the winter even when the power goes out. Gas is much more cost effective than electric as well. Also lobe my gas water heater for the same reason. Hot baths during blackouts. This whole "gas is bad for the environment" is bunk when fossil fuels are required to generate al that electricity and that doesn't even get to the cost and efficiency of st…

Last time I had any kind of electrical power failure was, IIRC, the end of 2006 while living in the middle of nowhere: https://maps.app.goo.gl/uhgrnw1W4KFBoiRRA So while I fully believe your lived experiences and preferences, a relevant question is: why are your electricity supplies so unreliable that having gas as well is even an important concern?

Because the majority of people rent and have no control over this in their place Mr. spoiled rich guy

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#813

Post by nerdchum » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 2:17 PM UTC

ahoy wrote: post #445

iamdamian wrote: post #365

This regulation feels quite frustrating to me, and several comments in this thread illustrate why. This change is being promoted as a critical step in the fight against climate change. (See most news articles over the past two years covering this.) But when you dig into the details, it seems like the regulation may not have much effect on climate change at all. When you point this out to advocates, you'll get an enti…

I _rent_ a home, as do a full half of new york state residents. I'd love an electric stove. Every rental I've ever lived in has a gas stove and no fume hood. The full half of new yorkers who rent - almost 20 million people - mostly get whatever theirlandlord picked. So when I read posts like this, decrying government overreach, I wonder if you've ever been poor? Have you ever lived here? Do you know what youre talkin…

I loved gas stoves as a renter. Electric were always shitty and too forever to adjust.

Just subjective opinion.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#814

Post by michael_vo » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 2:17 PM UTC

iamdamian wrote: post #365

This regulation feels quite frustrating to me, and several comments in this thread illustrate why. This change is being promoted as a critical step in the fight against climate change. (See most news articles over the past two years covering this.) But when you dig into the details, it seems like the regulation may not have much effect on climate change at all. When you point this out to advocates, you'll get an enti…

It's not just your own health though. Kids can develop asthma partially due to gas stoves and the toxic fumes that stay in the apartment for hours/days after. Some studies estimate 1/8 of all asthma cases for kids is due to gas stoves in USA.

I don't see this policy as having much of an effect against climate change but it is another step in making people aware of climate issues. Congress does not have the ability - right now - to ban cow meat or eating fish, but this would be a much better policy to aim for.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#815

Post by ramraj07 » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 2:23 PM UTC

throwaway2990 wrote: post #780

ramraj07 wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roti Indian style is finished off on top of a direct flame. Pretty impossible to fully emulate it without gas.

Never seen it finished off on an open flame in Singapore or Malaysia. No one does that. Roti prata is one of my favourite late night snacks. Atleast once a week I go down at 1am to buy it. If we talk about say poppadoms. Doing that without an open flame produces… it produces something…

More people than the population of the US likely eat rotis prepared that way. Like this: https://youtu.be/lsI08y6jwaQ

All of north India eats rotis made this way as their staple.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#816

Post by Pigalowda » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 2:23 PM UTC

simplotek wrote: post #720

ravenstine wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhhh... woe is you? Plenty of non-poor people live with gas stoves, often without fume hoods, and even prefer gas. Not once have I ever felt ill or victimized because I had to cook on gas.

> Not once have I ever felt ill or victimized because I had to cook on gas. Your comment reads like someone swearing smoking has no health impact because they never felt ill or victimized for smoking. Meanwhile, even the World Health Organization produces reports on health risks of household air pollution, where stoves are the primary pollution source. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/household-a...

That’s a false equivalence.

You’ve either misunderstood or deliberately linked an article that doesn’t support your claim about using natural gas cooking.

“Around 2.4 billion people worldwide (around a third of the global population) cook using open fires or inefficient stoves fuelled by kerosene, biomass (wood, animal dung and crop waste) and coal, which generates harmful household air pollution.”

Open fire/stove cooking is the primary cause of COPD in the developing world, in the developed world its smoking. The WHO is not worried about US homes with gas stoves. This article is not about natural gas stoves. The article is about open fire/stove cooking.

I hope others aren’t misled by you. What a shame.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#817

Post by iamdamian » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 2:24 PM UTC

kerkeslager wrote: post #794

iamdamian wrote: post #789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that I’ve been unable to find any convincing data showing that this will have meaningful impact relative to its cost. This thread has a relevant discussion and citations: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35758192

So using your "evidence" which is another citationless Hacker News post: > Agreed that 1% of the United States' 28% of global CO2 emissions is negligible in the grand global scheme. This is incredibly ignorant of the "death by 1000 cuts" issue of climate change. 1% or 28% of global CO2 emissions, if this statistic is even true, is huge . Very few climate change interventions are this effective. The more effective cli…

> 1% or 28% of global CO2 emissions, if this statistic is even true, is huge.

1% of 28%. If we trust that number, that means that the best we can hope for from this change is 0.0028 (0.3%, rounding up) of global emissions. That number is a ceiling: it assumes that not only do new buildings not have gas stoves, but that all old gas stoves in the United States are removed as well.

This negligible (IMO) improvement comes at the cost of 1) being vulnerable during power outages, 2) having a far worse cooking experience on a daily basis, according to many, and 3) generating significant political backlash that will hinder changes that will actually make a difference.

One of my favorite climate change books is How to Avoid a Climate Disaster, by Bill Gates, in which he outlines where the biggest opportunities lie. His approach seems far more practical and likely to make a dent in the problem.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#818

Post by amluto » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 2:26 PM UTC

tohnjitor wrote: post #786

They also keep threatening to ban the replacement of existing gas appliances when they cannot be repaired. I will be moving my family out of state before this happens. Any of you electronauts interested in a ~5000sqft home in the middle of a picturesque village with no crime? You'll have to call the gas company about removing the hookup after you move in.

Lots of places like this don’t have natural gas. It’s often propane tanks, which have their own issues.

Natural gas plumbing is not some magical, amazing thing that magically delivers a much-maligned but otherwise perfect product. It’s an explosive gas that’s piped through underground pipes with fancy pressure regulators and hopefully ends up somewhere useful. Those pipes are expensive, the regulators are complex and can leak or fail, sometimes spectacularly, and the final product is not that useful when delivered to houses. (And it’s not practical to make your own combustible gas at home, whereas making your own electricity can be done in several ways.)

If I were developing a new community from scratch, I would not install gas plumbing. The utilities would be fiber, electricity, water, sewage, and possibly district heating of some sort. This has nothing to do with regulations, just practicality.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#819

Post by iamdamian » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 2:29 PM UTC

carabiner wrote: post #796

iamdamian wrote: post #365

This regulation feels quite frustrating to me, and several comments in this thread illustrate why. This change is being promoted as a critical step in the fight against climate change. (See most news articles over the past two years covering this.) But when you dig into the details, it seems like the regulation may not have much effect on climate change at all. When you point this out to advocates, you'll get an enti…

1. Numerous regulations dictate safe home building. You can't legally build a home with faulty wiring. We accept these rules as part of a society, unless you are libertarian / sob citizen bent, which it sounds like you are. 2. Gas stoves leak when turned off. These leaks equaled 76% of their total methane gas emissions. These are pollutants that are harmful to humans and the atmosphere. Many fume hoods just recircula…

I mentioned above that I would love to see true fume hoods required for new buildings, as a regulation.

I'm not libertarian or even conservative and am surprised at an ad-hominem attack like this.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#820

Post by Pigalowda » Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 2:31 PM UTC

balderdash wrote: post #716

kleiba wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such baloney - there's so many way more relevant factors to the taste of food then which power source was used to provide heat. I bet if you did a blind tasting you'd not be able to tell the difference.

When people say they don’t like electric stoves, what they are saying is that they don’t like the PROCESS of cooking on an electric stove, and hence the results are not as good

I don’t like cooking on the electric stove top because it provides uneven heating. It’s easier to clean though.