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New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

nytimes.com

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Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#781

Post by rayiner »

tptacek wrote: post #630
Freedom2 wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my experience as well. I've spoken to Chinese co-workers who cook a lot of traditional food at home, and they have zero issues with electric stoves (induction or no) for cooking with a wok. As for those who claim that gas stoves are needed for wok cooking w/ specific techniques, most people who I've actually asked about what they cook on the wok is basically "fried rice", or even worse, they don't actually ha…

For what it's worth: I have a fussy gas range and I'd be peeved to have to give it up, and I don't have an opinion about whether it's good or bad to require new construction to use induction. But the racial angle on this is risible. It's evidence of bad faith argument.

[flagged]

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#782

Post by YurgenJurgensen »

dan-robertson wrote: post #682
eulgro wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Resistance cooktops are slow and weak Resistive is just fine. No way I'm throwing out my 20 years old stove to save 2 minutes boiling water. Once the coil is red hot there's virtually no time difference with induction.

I think the reason people usually don’t like resistive cooktops is that they change temperature slowly so it is hard to adjust things to the right temperature.

Also they're capable of melting dark coloured soft plastic with radiant heat even when they've been switched off.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#783

Post by kllrnohj »

indymike wrote: post #423
jablongo wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regarding heat pumps phasing out gas heat, in NY it isn’t feasible. It gets too cold. Not true, heat pumps are widely used as primary heat sources in environments as cold or colder than NY, like in Montreal and other parts of Canada. The take that heat pump tech only works in very moderate temperatures is stale at this point.

> Not true, heat pumps are widely used as primary heat sources in environments as cold or colder than NY, like in Montreal and other parts of Canada. As the owner of a 5 year old heat pump in a milder climate in Indiana, I can tell you this: * When it is under 10°F, my heat pump switches to emergency heat... forced air electric and is very expensive to run. * Often the temperature swings are pretty wild... 40-50 degr…

When your heat pump is using emergency heat yes it'd be "better" to burn natural gas to do so directly that to burn gas to make electricity to do resistive heating.

However you need to look more at the average scenario to draw a complete picture. When your heat pump isn't in emergency heating then it's more efficient to burn the gas for electricity to power that heat pump than it is to burn the gas for heat (moving heat is substantially cheaper than making heat). So how often is your heat pump in regular heating vs. emergency heat? And then is it in emergency heating often enough to justify having a secondary piece of infrastructure to get gas to your house where you then also need a gas furnace which is more expensive than some resistive heat strips are?

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#784

Post by DocTomoe »

yunohn wrote: post #743
DocTomoe wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why have a heating unit for food at all if we can all survive on gruel at room temperature? "You don't need it, so you can't have it" is a dangerous argument.

Kindly do not make ad-absurdum arguments. My point is that you need to weigh the advantages and disadvantages. Some individuals wanting baba-ganoush in NY should not be the reason to avoid electrification for the others. I appreciate that forced illegalisation is off-putting, but like others have said, renters don’t get a choice and landlords will avoid all expenditures. We need a way to help the majority wean off ga…

> Some individuals wanting baba-ganoush in NY should not be the reason to avoid electrification for the others.

What stops the others from having an electric stove, while natural gas infrastructure is still available? Are there living units in NY that have natural gas, but no electricity?

> renters don’t get a choice

Electric stovetops are about 30 dollars for two-plate solutions, if you decide for yourself that natural gas is not for you.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#786

Post by tohnjitor »

They also keep threatening to ban the replacement of existing gas appliances when they cannot be repaired. I will be moving my family out of state before this happens.

Any of you electronauts interested in a ~5000sqft home in the middle of a picturesque village with no crime? You'll have to call the gas company about removing the hookup after you move in.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#787

Post by roflyear »

tohnjitor wrote: post #786

They also keep threatening to ban the replacement of existing gas appliances when they cannot be repaired. I will be moving my family out of state before this happens. Any of you electronauts interested in a ~5000sqft home in the middle of a picturesque village with no crime? You'll have to call the gas company about removing the hookup after you move in.

So strange what people choose to care about

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#788

Post by NeverFade »

slashdev wrote: post #749
iamdamian wrote: post #365

This regulation feels quite frustrating to me, and several comments in this thread illustrate why. This change is being promoted as a critical step in the fight against climate change. (See most news articles over the past two years covering this.) But when you dig into the details, it seems like the regulation may not have much effect on climate change at all. When you point this out to advocates, you'll get an enti…

Banning gas for heating has a reasonable climate change argument. In Vancouver heating systems in new buildings will have to be zero emission soon. That makes some sense at least. Banning it for cooking seems to be another case of focusing on things that don’t move the needle. Meanwhile coal power plants continue to operate. There are less than 2500 major coal power plants worldwide. Why don’t we band together, mass…

> Why don’t we band together, mass produce 2500 nuclear plants that are at least as large, and make an actual difference.

Because the same climate activists who keep harping on the "climate crisis" and successfully push policies like in OP, are also irrationally opposed to nuclear energy.

Since these folks are calling the shots, we're heading into an energy crisis in which:

1. More and more demand is placed on our power grid due to moves like banning natural gas for heating.

2. This same power grid is rendered less and less capable and reliable due to being increasingly based on unreliable energy sources like wind and solar.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#789

Post by iamdamian »

kerkeslager wrote: post #769
iamdamian wrote: post #365

This regulation feels quite frustrating to me, and several comments in this thread illustrate why. This change is being promoted as a critical step in the fight against climate change. (See most news articles over the past two years covering this.) But when you dig into the details, it seems like the regulation may not have much effect on climate change at all. When you point this out to advocates, you'll get an enti…

> But when you dig into the details, it seems like the regulation may not have much effect on climate change at all. [Citation needed]

The issue is that I’ve been unable to find any convincing data showing that this will have meaningful impact relative to its cost.

This thread has a relevant discussion and citations: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35758192

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#790

Post by tohnjitor »

roflyear wrote: post #787
tohnjitor wrote: post #786

They also keep threatening to ban the replacement of existing gas appliances when they cannot be repaired. I will be moving my family out of state before this happens. Any of you electronauts interested in a ~5000sqft home in the middle of a picturesque village with no crime? You'll have to call the gas company about removing the hookup after you move in.

So strange what people choose to care about

It's the last straw in a long list of offensive and disrespectful actions the state government has taken.
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