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Let G.M. go bankrupt

blogs.law.harvard.edu

11–20 of 72 posts

Re: Let G.M. go bankrupt

#11
post #9

the problem is that GM is just too big to be profitable, and its just not competitive anymore. Hell GM is the biggest manufacturer in the world yet its losing money left and right.

It's actually #8 on the 2008 list. Although Toyota is the only auto maker above it (at #5). And my understanding is that Toyota is profitable. I'm not sure that's a valid excuse for GM.

Re: Let G.M. go bankrupt

#12

Let * go bankrupt That's what capitalism stands for. Those who kept a well managed admin and saved for the worst should be rewarded, not those who failed.

Exactly. This is not a crisis. Under the capitalist system those entities (individuals or organizations) who demonstrate their ability to manage resources effectively get more to manage, those who don't are ringfenced from doing too much damage by their resources being taken away. That is how the system is supposed to work, and how the system is working now.

Re: Let G.M. go bankrupt

#13
It seems that the first lesson that should be learned from all of these "too big to fail" entities needing bailout is that there are other reasons to prevent mergers than just antitrust. If we prevented corporations above a certain size from growing (by merging), wouldn't these problems with mega-sized failures sending shock waves through the system be fixed?

Maybe it would be less efficient, but it makes me think of a similar situation where pure profit-driven capitalism has lead to a bad situation: agricultural monocultures. Hunting for efficiency has produced a state that is finely tuned to be maximally efficient in the current environment while being dangerously sensitive to changes in that environment.

It's just not prudent to go all out, even if you think you have a good hand... especially if you're gambling with your children's college funds...

Re: Let G.M. go bankrupt

#14
post #10

Let * go bankrupt That's what capitalism stands for. Those who kept a well managed admin and saved for the worst should be rewarded, not those who failed.

> Those who kept a well managed admin and saved for the worst should be rewarded, not those who failed. There's an interesting issue there, though. Given: 1 - in general, higher risk => higher reward (if the risk comes off ok) 2 - fast growing competitors can dominate a market, wage a price war or buy slower-growing companies Isn't there a potential problem that companies which are sensibly prudent can be simply out-…

Economists call this the Dotcom Fallacy.

Re: Let G.M. go bankrupt

#15
post #10

Let * go bankrupt That's what capitalism stands for. Those who kept a well managed admin and saved for the worst should be rewarded, not those who failed.

> Those who kept a well managed admin and saved for the worst should be rewarded, not those who failed. There's an interesting issue there, though. Given: 1 - in general, higher risk => higher reward (if the risk comes off ok) 2 - fast growing competitors can dominate a market, wage a price war or buy slower-growing companies Isn't there a potential problem that companies which are sensibly prudent can be simply out-…

I think so too, like I said in my other post: check out "fooled by randomness" and the stories of investors who blow up.

Re: Let G.M. go bankrupt

#16
post #11
post #9

the problem is that GM is just too big to be profitable, and its just not competitive anymore. Hell GM is the biggest manufacturer in the world yet its losing money left and right.

It's actually #8 on the 2008 list. Although Toyota is the only auto maker above it (at #5). And my understanding is that Toyota is profitable. I'm not sure that's a valid excuse for GM.

Is that worldwide? Just doesn't seem right. I mean they were #1 for 2007 when they did the stats in January. I'm talking about vehicle sales, not profitability.

Re: Let G.M. go bankrupt

#17
post #10

Let * go bankrupt That's what capitalism stands for. Those who kept a well managed admin and saved for the worst should be rewarded, not those who failed.

> Those who kept a well managed admin and saved for the worst should be rewarded, not those who failed. There's an interesting issue there, though. Given: 1 - in general, higher risk => higher reward (if the risk comes off ok) 2 - fast growing competitors can dominate a market, wage a price war or buy slower-growing companies Isn't there a potential problem that companies which are sensibly prudent can be simply out-…

Is there a reason to bail those companies out of bankruptcy with tax payer dollars?

If you're simply pointing out the potential advantage that a large number of higher risk competitors may hold, remember that advantage is tempered by lacking the pole position and the resources that the large company typically enjoys.

My startup is competing against some very large companies, and while we are faster, cheaper, better service, etc... They have existing marketshare, long term contracts, huge advertising/sales budgets, long track records, massive good-ol-boy networks, etc... We're doing great (we only want/need a few customers, not the whole market), but I doubt we'll ever "out-compete" the big fish to the point that they fail or we lead the market space. Being the big fish has a ton of advantages, even if they are slow moving.

Re: Let G.M. go bankrupt

#18
post #16
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually #8 on the 2008 list. Although Toyota is the only auto maker above it (at #5). And my understanding is that Toyota is profitable. I'm not sure that's a valid excuse for GM.

Is that worldwide? Just doesn't seem right. I mean they were #1 for 2007 when they did the stats in January. I'm talking about vehicle sales, not profitability.

That's the IW global manufacturing (which includes Oil, Coal, etc...) list, by gross revenue. If you're speaking specifically of auto companies, then they're #2, behind Toyota. Last year they were number one, but Toyota beat them in 2008.

Re: Let G.M. go bankrupt

#20
post #18
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that worldwide? Just doesn't seem right. I mean they were #1 for 2007 when they did the stats in January. I'm talking about vehicle sales, not profitability.

That's the IW global manufacturing (which includes Oil, Coal, etc...) list, by gross revenue. If you're speaking specifically of auto companies, then they're #2, behind Toyota. Last year they were number one, but Toyota beat them in 2008.

ah I see...yeah I was talking only about the auto manufacturers.
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