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U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

cdc.gov

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Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#61

Post by dotandgtfo »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #54
kmarc wrote: post #45

Look around you and observe your friends, family, colleagues, or a significant other, but really: any adults. This is not only affecting "teen girls", and certainly not only US people. We need more research on this without "teen girls" in the clickbait titles. This affects everyone. It affected the person of my romantic interest and I had to break up at the end. This affects 30+ year old men too. Don't dismiss it. Be…

> This affects 30+ year old men too. Don't dismiss it. Society does not care about male problems. Let's just label them incels or terrorists and be done with it. Also at the same time let's wonder why Andrew Tate and similar are easily getting such a huge following.

Hot take, I know, and sorry in advance. But I'll go so far as to say that what you're saying here is in part caused by technology, the internet and social media. Most reasonable people, and reasonable feminists (which most feminists I've met are) do sympathise with men and their issues as well.

I think social media amplifies the extreme minorities voices that state that they don't care about male problems, that men are incels and far-right terrorists and other unsavory takes. I don't think most people label males as such. But I do think social media is extremely good at bringing up these takes - because they create a lot of engagement (particularly from the opposing side).

I think social media affects 30 year old males in the exact same way as teenage girls get body image problems from looking at "perfect" lives on Instagram. Men get served toxic and outrage based content that shows the extreme outliers - multiple times a week, for multiple years in a row.

I think most people are reasonable. I think most people care about male problems. I think a minority label men as incels or terrorists. I think the internet exaggerates this position greatly, and it's at least partly overblown.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#62

Post by bobitsaboy »

Planktonne wrote: post #39
bobitsaboy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have to assume that this could include anything from what they felt was some amount of coercion or pressure to have sex up to rape.

'Some amount of pressure or coercion' is still rape; no matter how you use language to minimise it, it adds an amount of 'non-' to the 'consenual'.

Not going to play semantics here. There is definitely a different level of trauma for a person to experience for something they are physically forced or threatened by force to endure than something they are convinced to do even if they would have otherwise not. It's insulting to victims of the former to pretend otherwise.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#63

Post by throwaway290 »

lr4444lr wrote: post #13
egeozcan wrote: post #10

> More than 1 in 10 (14%) had ever been forced to have sex 14% of all the teenage girls are raped? How is this possible? I'm really not the one to grab the pitchfork first for sure but this... I don't know... How are we okay with this?

I'd like to see the survey question(s) they used to derive this. I recall when the oft touted claim that "1 in 4 college females experience sexual assault" included anyone who answered that they'd had sex under the influence of alcohol.

Good news for you! The very first link in article body goes to a very ctrl-Fable PDF. If you are actually interested, in less than a minute worth of effort you'd find those pieces of info on pages 53 and 82.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#64

Post by revelio »

dotandgtfo wrote: post #61
TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This affects 30+ year old men too. Don't dismiss it. Society does not care about male problems. Let's just label them incels or terrorists and be done with it. Also at the same time let's wonder why Andrew Tate and similar are easily getting such a huge following.

Hot take, I know, and sorry in advance. But I'll go so far as to say that what you're saying here is in part caused by technology, the internet and social media. Most reasonable people, and reasonable feminists (which most feminists I've met are) do sympathise with men and their issues as well. I think social media amplifies the extreme minorities voices that state that they don't care about male problems, that men a…

Reasonableness is hard to determine ahead of time, or even to define.

Here's something I've seen happen. A couple of women in a corporate Slack channel says, hey CEO, what are you going to do to celebrate International Women's Day? Some dudes respond and say, cool, good idea but if we do something for that can we also celebrate International Men's Day? The women reply with angry face and eyeroll emojis before saying: no we should not, because "every day is international men's day".

This is the type of casual misandry and anti-male sentiment that is an everyday experience when dealing with feminists. Were these women the "reasonable" type? They weren't literally tweeting #KillAllMen but when it came to the crunch they wanted special privileges for women and justified this sexism with shallow, untrue meme-based kneejerks.

So the OPs point is accurate. Nobody cares about men being depressed or angry, especially not in government, academia or the media. Phrase it in terms of teen girls and the floodgates of tax money open. Let that affect strategy or don't, but that's how it is.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#65

Post by revelio »

jdthedisciple wrote: post #6

How about spend less time on Instagram and TikTok and more in nature?

Will only help if the problem is actually social media but the articles Haidt assembled to show that had a lot of problems. Social media might be a confounder or symptom rather than a cause.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#66

Post by orwin »

fafqg wrote: post #3

It's normal for humans to compare themselves to their peers. That's how we have achieved the level of greatness that we currently enjoy: by competing. Males do it positively and females do it negatively. My theory is that this has gotten out of hand with the boom of Instagram and it shows.

I agree on some premisces, but not all. I do not think your sex/hormones/whatever influence if you do it positively or negatively.

It's either the nature of what you're competing in, or how is it viewed by the society at large. Not sure which yet, I haven't thought enough about it.

My two main non-work, non tabletop activities are now windsurfing and rock climbing, two activities that are split roughly 70-30 male/female. We compete the same.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#67

Post by hotpotamus »

echelon wrote: post #4
zmgsabst wrote: post #2

[flagged]

I grew up being told I could do anything I put my mind to. That I was responsible, to a very large degree, for my own path and making my dreams come true. I don't understand how those told that they're disadvantaged can persevere and succeed. Especially when they're told that it's the system's fault. It takes seeking out adversity, embracing and enjoying it to push ahead. If you're uncomfortable at your basal level,…

What if you were born with an IQ of 85?

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#68

Post by tomohawk »

The newest member of the US Supreme Court was asked to define what a woman was. She refused.

We have a culture where people either don't know what a woman is or are too intimidated to talk about it.

Is this what girls have to look forward to?

I'd be depressed, too.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#69

Post by CipherThrowaway »

Planktonne wrote: post #39
bobitsaboy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have to assume that this could include anything from what they felt was some amount of coercion or pressure to have sex up to rape.

'Some amount of pressure or coercion' is still rape; no matter how you use language to minimise it, it adds an amount of 'non-' to the 'consenual'.

I have the lower sex drive in my relationships and experience a concomitant pressure to have sex when I don't want to. I'll often say yes to avoid a fight, avoid upsetting my partner or to stop them from nagging me. This has never seemed like a big deal to me although it is sometimes a nuisance. How does this square with your PoV? Is it rape? Maybe it doesn't count as "real" pressure?

I'm not trying to minimize the issue or trip you up here. There is obviously enough coercive and violent SA taking place for it to be a major social issue no matter how broad the definition is. I'm trying to figure out how pressure as a sufficient condition for rape squares with the lived experience of people like myself who do frequently feel pressure to have sex.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#70

Post by throwaway290 »

bobitsaboy wrote: post #62
Planktonne wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Some amount of pressure or coercion' is still rape; no matter how you use language to minimise it, it adds an amount of 'non-' to the 'consenual'.

Not going to play semantics here. There is definitely a different level of trauma for a person to experience for something they are physically forced or threatened by force to endure than something they are convinced to do even if they would have otherwise not. It's insulting to victims of the former to pretend otherwise.

Valid point, but we are talking about those very victims you are worried about insulting here. Girls who were physically forced to have sex.

And to reply to those who say that boys are also raped, yes. But only 4% of males reported that.

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