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All or something (2009)

37signals.com

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Re: All or something (2009)

#51

Post by huggyface »

alberth wrote: post #4

CH blog post comment is so true (can't hard link to it): There is a fundamental difference in philosophy here. Some startups work 24/7 because they are “swinging for the fences” (to use a baseball analogy). Where other startups, like yourself [37signals] back in the day, are content with simply hitting “singles”. .... Here’s the philosophical difference, you can live a good life on hitting singles, but you’ll never b…

Can you give examples of some of these companies "swinging for the fences"?

Often it comes down to execution competence. I've seen self-titled startups put in incredible effort...and then come out with something that should have been a weekend project. I've seen casual weekend projects turn into brilliance.

I would offer up that many of those who have to work "24/7" do so as a poor alternative to competence/ability. Some of them, on the flipside, barely put in fulltime hours of real work, but maintain so little self-control and discipline, so focused on the display of heroics, that they seemingly always need to work.

Perhaps that's cynical, but I've never read a story where people legitimately put in an incredible effort and yielded a corresponding output.

Re: All or something (2009)

#52

Post by peregrine »

I'm not sure there is one way to do it. The world needs companies pushing like the yc startup and it needs companies like 37signals. There is lots of room for both sides of the coin and the world is not so black and white as DHH or pg like to make it. :)

Re: All or something (2009)

#53

Post by mattdeboard »

keeptrying wrote: post #36

Doing a statup now. There is a LOT of work and a LOT of learning. I don't see how I can get to launch without working my tail off. I think this kind of crap us peddled by startups which happened to succeed because they hit profitability quickly and have cash cows that throw off a lot of cash. In a startup your going to be doing a lot of stuff you have no clue about - your going to gave to work your ass off in the beg…

What is the difference? A startup is a business by definition.

Re: All or something (2009)

#54

Post by aespinoza »

pg wrote: post #28

"One of the most pervasive myths of startup life is that it has to be all consuming." This supposed myth long precedes startups. If you look at the outliers in any field, you'll find many if not most are by ordinary people's standards excessively dedicated to their work. Isaac Newton and Michelangelo (to name just two of thousands of examples) were notorious for neglecting everything except their work. The fact that…

In my personal opinion, I think "all consuming" just lacks optimization.

Isaac Newton and Michelangelo didn't know any better. At their time, their process was the only one.

At this moment, we have learned to work smarter, not harder. You can definitely have kids and do a great work. Hell you can have multiple companies and do a great job.

Our time is more focused on having a full life, not only focusing on one thing but also being able to hustle between all the aspects of life.

Myth or not myth doesn't mean that it is the only way. And even if geniuses like Newton and Michelangelo followed a way of doing things, doesn't mean it is the only way.

Besides even if you kill yourself working, doesn't mean you'll be successful. If you stay focused and work smart, you have better odds at success.

Re: All or something (2009)

#55

Post by tstyle »

It is true that are probably many niche markets that pay respectable income to people who are willing to invest 10-20 hours per week. It's just like how many people become successful at their weekend hobbies and sports.

But many things these days resemble a game of winner takes all(social products, App Store leaderboard, etc...) If you are striving for a top spot in one of these areas, chances are you are facing competitors who are working both "hard" AND "smart". The claim that you can work 10-20 hours a week and stay competitive in these situations just seems overly optimistic to me.

Re: All or something (2009)

#56

Post by cageface »

pg wrote: post #28

"One of the most pervasive myths of startup life is that it has to be all consuming." This supposed myth long precedes startups. If you look at the outliers in any field, you'll find many if not most are by ordinary people's standards excessively dedicated to their work. Isaac Newton and Michelangelo (to name just two of thousands of examples) were notorious for neglecting everything except their work. The fact that…

A lot of people of that stature were also miserable, abusive, and self-centered. It almost seems to come with the territory. For most of us shooting for a better life balance is probably much more likely to make us happy.

Re: All or something (2009)

#57

Post by rythie »

Cause and effect switched?

Lots of work probably won't make a failing startup succeed (you are probably going in the wrong direction or wasting time on the wrong things). However, a rapidly growing startup requires a lot of time, when it takes off, simply to scale business (hires, offices, VCs, server maintenance etc).

Re: All or something (2009)

#59

Post by hasenj »

aespinoza wrote: post #54
pg wrote: post #28

"One of the most pervasive myths of startup life is that it has to be all consuming." This supposed myth long precedes startups. If you look at the outliers in any field, you'll find many if not most are by ordinary people's standards excessively dedicated to their work. Isaac Newton and Michelangelo (to name just two of thousands of examples) were notorious for neglecting everything except their work. The fact that…

In my personal opinion, I think "all consuming" just lacks optimization. Isaac Newton and Michelangelo didn't know any better. At their time, their process was the only one. At this moment, we have learned to work smarter, not harder. You can definitely have kids and do a great work. Hell you can have multiple companies and do a great job. Our time is more focused on having a full life, not only focusing on one thing…

Isaac Newton and Michelangelo didn't know any better. At their time, their process was the only one.

Come on! Newton invented calculus before he turned 26, I'd like to see someone invent calculus today before they turn 26. (Most people have trouble understanding it, and this includes me).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=danYFxGnFxQ

Re: All or something (2009)

#60

Post by stiff »

pg wrote: post #28

"One of the most pervasive myths of startup life is that it has to be all consuming." This supposed myth long precedes startups. If you look at the outliers in any field, you'll find many if not most are by ordinary people's standards excessively dedicated to their work. Isaac Newton and Michelangelo (to name just two of thousands of examples) were notorious for neglecting everything except their work. The fact that…

Einstein had a day job as a patent clerk when working on relativity. Leibniz did manage to invent calculus, including the notation used to this day, even though he picked up mathematics relatively late in life and even though he also had a job and lots of other occupations in philosophy, engineering, politics etc. You can do a lot if you dedicate to a problem 10 quality hours a week for 10 years. It still takes a lot of dedication and focus, but stating as some kind of law that unless you work obsessively all the time you can not succeed is rather simplistic for something as vague and at the same time as complex as "success". Hard work isn't a virtue by itself, the capability to do work is a precious resource, that should be used wisely where it will make the most impact.
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