U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#211

Post by fooker » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 8:52 PM UTC

photochemsyn wrote: post #63

version_five wrote: post #2

Sort of related, ontario is dropping university requirements for police: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/ontario-eliminating-edu... I wonder if it's coincidence or the start of a trend back to sanity about job qualifications. Ironically, by becoming almost ubiquitous, university education also becomes irrelevant.

I'd prefer police officers with EMT (and preferably paramedic) training to those with four-year sociology degrees. Knowledge of DNA and computer forensic methods and necessities, though, would probably improve their chances of getting promoted, as would legal training. However, those skills could easily be learned at two-year community college progams. All in all, I think this kind of focus would lead to a more profe…

Are you perhaps assuming that such a sociology curriculum will always be a modern woke one you agree with?

What happens when bigots get that curriculum changed to suit their agenda?

What happens in countries where the current social norm is "gay people don't exist" ?

Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#212

Post by htek » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 8:52 PM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #114

photochemsyn wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd prefer police officers with EMT (and preferably paramedic) training to those with four-year sociology degrees. Knowledge of DNA and computer forensic methods and necessities, though, would probably improve their chances of getting promoted, as would legal training. However, those skills could easily be learned at two-year community college progams. All in all, I think this kind of focus would lead to a more profe…

Mixed feelings... police in the US are woefully/tragically undertrained relative to police in Europe. 3-4 months is typical for a police academy in the US. Plus 6 months or so with a field training officer for basic on-job training. Compared to 2.5 years of the same in Germany. College may not be the right answer, but the current system of very little training isn't working.

Also, tragically, people go to college wanting to get into law enforcement are working at cross purposes to what police departments want to hire: less intelligent cops. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/too-smart-to-be-a-cop/

Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#213

Post by augment003 » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 8:53 PM UTC

nawgz wrote: post #175

augment003 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you are actually claiming that the reason American police shoot more people than Canadian police is because Canadian police have college degrees and American police do not? Even if your premises were correct, it wouldn’t be worth trying to debate that further. Hint: They aren’t. Do some research on what percentage of US police have college degrees, and what percentage of Canadian police have college degrees. It i…

> You might want to look at the demographics of who police shoot in the US Canadian police are also quite racist, but if you're arguing that "less educated American cops are more racist", that tracks pretty nicely with "please don't accept less educated cops" > you are actually claiming that the reason American police shoot more people than Canadian police is because Canadian police have college degrees and American…

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Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#214

Post by wincy » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 8:55 PM UTC

wolverine876 wrote: post #173

Instead of better educating our population, the low-tax / anti-intellectual / authoritarian-reactionaries have convinced the population that they don't need education. With education, they might aim for socio-economic advancement (remember the American Dream?), think for themselves, challenge the established order (edit: i.e., they might decide to become the powerful and the leaders themselves). Now they know their p…

I grew up in a trailer in a poor town. I’m a high school dropout, am in my mid thirties and became a software engineering team lead last year. I feel lucky that I make a great income that I can support my family, and nobody I work with cares about my education. They care that I know the field and have insights into how to solve the problems we encounter.

I’m doing better than almost every person I went to high school with, and my friends with advanced degrees (like philosophy) have either become software engineers or are saddled with more debt than they’ll ever be able to repay. I don’t see how that’s better?

I feel like my choice was the right one. Maybe it’s survivorship bias, but school was not for me and I’m glad I get to do work I’m proud of, and feel that going to college is a mistake for a lot of people.

Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#215

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 8:55 PM UTC

nawgz wrote: post #205

fauxpause_ wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This butchering of statistical reasoning is so poor I have to assume it is a troll But in case it’s genuine, consider vast differences in gun ownership, homicide rate, and… honestly so many other things it’s just annoying to list them.

> consider vast differences I did. Gun ownership is about 32% of individuals in USA vs 25% of individuals in Canada. Homicide rate is about 2.5x higher in the US, which means US cops are outperforming this statistic vs US civilians. > so many other things It's not just annoying to list them, it's ridiculous; these countries are the exact same place. Across the board, everything you can think of has a lot of statistic…

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Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#216

Post by logicalmonster » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 8:56 PM UTC

rahimnathwani wrote: post #204

logicalmonster wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally speaking, all I can remember hearing drilled into me in the American school system as the path for life success was going to college. The implication was that you'd be a loser who worked flipping burgers at McDonalds for the rest of your life if you didn't go to college. As far as the data you ask for, I'm all for doing that kind of research, but there's probably many variables that are hard to directly e…

I agree with the general sentiment that people do degrees for bad reasons, that even good reasons at an individual level may not be optimal in aggregate etc. But I'm particularly interested in your hypothesis that it's driven mainly or solely by the inability for US employers to use IQ tests. Your first sentences (about college being the default/accepted path) is also true in other countries that aren't subject to th…

The reason for anything large usually has a lot of contributing causes, and I don't think I have all of the answers here, but a first guess would be to think about US Cultural Dominance. If the real world was a game of Civilization, the US would be having an overwhelming cultural lead after WWII. Basically whatever the zeitgeist in the US is ends up spreading through the world for many reasons. If it dominated American culture 50 years ago that going to college was mandatory, it seems likely that this attitude would have spread to a lot of other countries too. Is that the right explanation? Probably not entirely, but I think that attitudes and ideas that dominate the US end up spreading a lot because of Hollywood and other cultural reasons.

Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#217

Post by augment003 » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 8:58 PM UTC

nawgz wrote: post #178

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will you propose a different reason why US police are so much deadlier Guns. 1.2 per American, 0.35 per Canadian [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g...

That's not a very good argument - those guns are concentrated in the hands of about 32% of the US population [0], whereas in Canada it's probably closer to 25% [1]. [1] says "[t]he overall rate of firearm ownership is at least 241 per 1,000 population and is comparable to ownership rates in other countries where hunting is a significant activity" [0]: https://news.gallup.com/poll/264932/percentage-americans-own... [1…

Seems like you don’t know there’s a difference between handguns and hunting rifles.

Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#218

Post by standardly » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 8:59 PM UTC

undersuit wrote: post #105

elil17 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a huge benefit to having politicians work in teams because modern laws are so complex that you need some specialization of labor to read and write them.

Why can't the individuals with specialization of labor be elected? You have a pool of 11000+ Representatives with the original ratio. I can even conceive of Representatives running on the basis of their knowledge in such a system.

You thought outside the box, and were downvoted..

Some may not agree with your general idea, but we need more of this kind of discourse.

Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#219

Post by augment003 » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 9:00 PM UTC

nawgz wrote: post #205

fauxpause_ wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This butchering of statistical reasoning is so poor I have to assume it is a troll But in case it’s genuine, consider vast differences in gun ownership, homicide rate, and… honestly so many other things it’s just annoying to list them.

> consider vast differences I did. Gun ownership is about 32% of individuals in USA vs 25% of individuals in Canada. Homicide rate is about 2.5x higher in the US, which means US cops are outperforming this statistic vs US civilians. > so many other things It's not just annoying to list them, it's ridiculous; these countries are the exact same place. Across the board, everything you can think of has a lot of statistic…

Have you considered handguns as a factor?

Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#220

Post by jewayne » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 9:06 PM UTC

HideousKojima wrote: post #145

triceratops wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not possible for Obama's mother to have been living outside the US 5 years before his birth. She only met Obama Sr 2 years before little Barack was born. (Not that facts or logic matter to birthers, but anyway)

>It's not possible for Obama's mother to have been living outside the US 5 years before his birth. I think you misread the law, if she lived outside the country for two years then she wouldn't have spent the last five years in the US.

At the time of Barack's birth, of course, Ann Dunham was only 18 years old and had lived her entire life in the US.

I think at this point we all have to acknowledge the retarded genius of Donald Trump, the way he always got people to talk about what he wanted them to talk about. Discussions like this legitimize false statements, and were part of what legitimized Trump himself.