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U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

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Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#171
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've never heard any justification for having "college education" as a job requirement. Really? Never? "A degree shows they have learned how to learn." "A degree shows they can stick with something for 3-4 years." "A degree shows they have learned how to write." "A degree is needed because high school education sucks so bad now."

Those may be justifications people use, but ironically they are all statements that people take as true but in reality often are complete bullshit.

Some are, but many are lazy short cuts But can you honestly say you've never heard ANY justification.

Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police should definitely be more highly educated, we see the result of them not being so in the US

People with university educations can very much abuse their power. Thinking otherwise is a liberal fantasy, much like the formerly popular meme that China would magically liberalize its political system because of globalization.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#173
Instead of better educating our population, the low-tax / anti-intellectual / authoritarian-reactionaries have convinced the population that they don't need education.

With education, they might aim for socio-economic advancement (remember the American Dream?), think for themselves, challenge the established order (edit: i.e., they might decide to become the powerful and the leaders themselves). Now they know their places - don't get an education, and take a job where you won't ever need one. Sad to see the American Dream abandoned and people just giving up. Of course, the wealthy kids still get the education - they are in a different class in our new class-based system.

Also, education costs money, and that is the hardline priority over everything, including fundamental human welfare such as health care and education.

Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#174
Rule one of politics: Don't train up your own replacements. Make sure you are always the most qualified person for everything. A good step to that is only hiring people without the qualifications they might one day use to replace you. How many representatives don't have college degree or at least don't claim to have degrees? Several do claim degrees they don't have, but I don't know of any that claim to have never attended some sort of post-secondary education.

Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#175
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your argument has nothing to do with college degrees at all What I'm saying is pretty obvious, but I'll spell it out for you. 1. Canadian and American cultures are extremely homogenous 2. Canadian and American police have few differences, but a critical one is the Canadian-only requirement of university degrees 3. With no other clearly-defined drivers of police culture differentiation across the border, we see that…

So, you are actually claiming that the reason American police shoot more people than Canadian police is because Canadian police have college degrees and American police do not? Even if your premises were correct, it wouldn’t be worth trying to debate that further. Hint: They aren’t. Do some research on what percentage of US police have college degrees, and what percentage of Canadian police have college degrees. It i…

> You might want to look at the demographics of who police shoot in the US

Canadian police are also quite racist, but if you're arguing that "less educated American cops are more racist", that tracks pretty nicely with "please don't accept less educated cops"

> you are actually claiming that the reason American police shoot more people than Canadian police is because Canadian police have college degrees and American police do not?

Do you have a different explanation?

> Do some research on what percentage of US police have college degrees

According to [0], the breakdown of US officer max education of no college/college diploma/undergrad/grad is:

* 49/20/25/5

> and what percentage of Canadian police have college degrees

And, according to [1], for Canadian officers, it's:

* 19/51/29/1.6

Quite a disparity. Especially when you consider sources like [2][3], which argue that:

> "Studies have found that a small proportion of police officers – about 5% – produce most citizen complaints, and officers with a two-year degree are about half as likely to be in the high-rate complaint group"

Overall, I believe there's lots of evidence suggesting more educated police are better police and citizens, and none suggesting the opposite - that less educated police are better.

Across the board, Canadian police are significantly better educated, with the exception of less Graduated degrees.

Across the board, Canadian police are less deadly to their citizens.

Not a coincidence - go ahead and say some more stupid shit though.

[0]: https://www.nu.edu/blog/law-enforcement-education [1]: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2015001/article... [2]: https://theconversation.com/5-reasons-police-officers-should... Source of the quote [3]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472... Source of the info behind the quote, paywalled

Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#176

Instead of better educating our population, the low-tax / anti-intellectual / authoritarian-reactionaries have convinced the population that they don't need education. With education, they might aim for socio-economic advancement (remember the American Dream?), think for themselves, challenge the established order (edit: i.e., they might decide to become the powerful and the leaders themselves). Now they know their p…

Most college education right now opens up very little in terms of "socio-economic advancement" besides being "ticks the right box" on an application. Which is basically the opposite of "think for themselves, challenge the established order."

The status quo there isn't great; the wealthy were getting very different college degrees anyway and going into very different jobs.

Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#177
post #51
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A college degree from an accredited institution shows that you can see through a task that takes 4+ years to complete. There are many other ways to show that, and it's silly to limit anything to only people with college degrees, but that's why people do it.

All that it shows is that you had enough money to pay for 4 years of college. If that were the only criteria then holding on to a job for 4+ years should count for 1000x more than a college degree, because at least you are accountable for results.

This just isn't true.

Our public education is very bad now in much of the country. The fact is what you get out of high school from a huge portion of the population is...not great.

No one is stopping anyone from hiring these people. If there is no difference, people will pay less for the cheaper labor.

Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#178
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your argument has nothing to do with college degrees at all What I'm saying is pretty obvious, but I'll spell it out for you. 1. Canadian and American cultures are extremely homogenous 2. Canadian and American police have few differences, but a critical one is the Canadian-only requirement of university degrees 3. With no other clearly-defined drivers of police culture differentiation across the border, we see that…

> Will you propose a different reason why US police are so much deadlier Guns. 1.2 per American, 0.35 per Canadian [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g...

That's not a very good argument - those guns are concentrated in the hands of about 32% of the US population [0], whereas in Canada it's probably closer to 25% [1]. [1] says "[t]he overall rate of firearm ownership is at least 241 per 1,000 population and is comparable to ownership rates in other countries where hunting is a significant activity"

[0]: https://news.gallup.com/poll/264932/percentage-americans-own... [1]: https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/csj-sjc/jsp-sjp/wd98_4-d...

Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#179

Sort of related, ontario is dropping university requirements for police: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/ontario-eliminating-edu... I wonder if it's coincidence or the start of a trend back to sanity about job qualifications. Ironically, by becoming almost ubiquitous, university education also becomes irrelevant.

Soooo...education beyond the 3rd grade is irrelevant?

I know I'm being snarky, but c'mon man! It wasn't that long ago the same could be said (and was said) for education past the 3rd grade, then the discussion moved to education past the 8th grade, and now it's moved to education past the 12th grade. It's just a rehash of the same, tired argument justifying a poorly-educated populace which makes for a poorly-educated electorate, which tends to be more susceptible to populism.

Re: U.S. Rep. Angie Craig drops college requirement for staffers

#180

Tangentially related, at my current job we do not filter candidates by certain "top schools" and it has lead to the most diverse (ethnic, gender, vocational background, social economic, nationality, etc.) team of software engineers I've ever worked on. This is in sharp contrast to all my previous jobs where they consistently filter by a list of schools. Obviously this is not a silver bullet but it's quite shocking to…

I'm clearly naive and haven't worked closely enough to filtering stage of of the hiring process, but nevertheless.. I'm shocked to hear that there was a deliberate and explicit filtering by a list of "top schools. An implicit look at the school and some dose of bias, okay sure, I could see it, but an explicit filter? Wow.

In some industries that's the norm. I did my MBA at Oxford (which, at least at the time, was not well-known for its MBA program). A recruiter at an investment bank told me that, since Oxford wasn't on their list of target schools for post-MBA hiring, they wouldn't even look at my CV until and unless they were unable to fill their associate-level positions with people from those target schools.
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