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I can't recommend serious use of an all-in-one local Grafana Loki setup

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Re: I can't recommend serious use of an all-in-one local Grafana Loki setup

#11
It really is amazing at just how bad the various log shipping systems are for the simple use case of "I have logs on some servers and I want them to be over here." We somehow peaked at rsyslog and have been struggling ever since.

If you don't follow the one-true-architecture you will get bitten in a million ways.

* Log ingestion on the host pulls logs from the application/system/whatever, timestamps the logs itself (bc when you're interested in failure states do you really trust the log emitted by a broken app? Also because devs are famously bad a timezones), adds it's own metadata, and stores them in a local outbox queue.

* Local log ingestion determines where to send logs based on service discovery and periodically updates.

* Log ingestor ships the logs to a durable queue and flushes only after getting an ACK from the queue.

* Log processor reads from the queue and ships the logs off to persistent storage or a dead letter queue where you get an alert if it ever has something in it. Log processor only ACKs back to the queue only once it gets an ACK from the db. Logstash used to sin in this regard.

* Persistent storage treats logs as opaque blobs from the perspective of how they're physically stored. Indexes are time-window based depending on your volume, usually daily, and shipped off to different tiers / deleted on that basis.

This stack can horizontally scale indefinitely up to (and past since the queue backups allow you to temporarily fake more throughput than you really have) the throughput of your backing database.

I loathe how complicated and brittle the ELK stack is but they get this exactly right and if you implement it it becomes nigh-impossible to lose data. The market for "ELK style architecture but not the size of a 400 lb gorilla" has got to be huge but is seemingly untapped last I checked.

Re: I can't recommend serious use of an all-in-one local Grafana Loki setup

#12
post #3

Loki is open source. OP should take some of that frustrated energy and create a PR to improve the docs. I don't think this is a matter of Grafana Inc not wanting people to run Loki themselves but rather a resource constraints issue.

Unfortunately, Grafana discourages contributions from the community, even for its documentation.

Loki docs are here: https://github.com/grafana/loki/tree/main/docs/sources they are OSS.

The last contributor to the docs was an hour ago (at time of writing this comment) and came from a maintainer not employed by Grafana Labs.

Looking down the recent commits I see lots of activities from non-Grafana employees that have been accepted.

If there are specific issues with contributing docs or code please do point me towards them.

Re: I can't recommend serious use of an all-in-one local Grafana Loki setup

#13
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, Grafana discourages contributions from the community, even for its documentation.

Not that I don't believe that's entirely possible, but do you have a link to something demonstrating this behavior? A _very_ cursory google search didn't come up with anything immediately. Like this article might just be for show but its the first thing that came up ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ https://grafana.com/docs/grafana/latest/developers/contribut...

Grafana requires you to sign a CLA before they will accept any work, which can be really expensive (unless you have in-house lawyers or don't care about understanding the real ramifications of a contract): https://grafana.com/docs/grafana/latest/developers/cla/

Re: I can't recommend serious use of an all-in-one local Grafana Loki setup

#14
While I myself use Loki for log aggregation for a small web service that I run, and have gotten a lot of value out of it, I agree with the author that the product is not friendly to use.

It's notoriously difficult to know why ingestion of certain logs failed, to the point where I run a staging monitoring environment to debug issues like these.

Re: I can't recommend serious use of an all-in-one local Grafana Loki setup

#15
The last paragraph adds some context

> PS: Loki also has some container-ized multi-component run-it-yourself example setups. I don't have any experience with them so I have no idea if they're better supported and more reliable in practice than the all-in-one version (which isn't particularly, as we've seen). A container based setup ingesting custom application logs with low label cardinality and storing the actual logs in the cloud instead of the filesystem may be a much better place to be for using Loki in practice than 'all in one systemd journal ingestion to the filesystem'.

Author may be holding the tool wrong, using it for a scenario it was not optimized for

Re: I can't recommend serious use of an all-in-one local Grafana Loki setup

#16
Regarding the docs being a bit out of touch I can agree, although it was helpful to find the `loki -print-config-stderr` command (that should be default when setting it up). It will print all of the current config options and their values. Very helpful since there was no GRPC TLS Client settings in the docs, but according to the source code there should be.

All in all I find a pretty new player on the market, but there is not much to compare it with. Given other product from Grafana I guess it will mature as well. There's always more mature projects like Graylog, but compared to that Loki is pretty small. But yeah, it got teeths, but dang it's fast!

Re: I can't recommend serious use of an all-in-one local Grafana Loki setup

#17
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I don't believe that's entirely possible, but do you have a link to something demonstrating this behavior? A _very_ cursory google search didn't come up with anything immediately. Like this article might just be for show but its the first thing that came up ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ https://grafana.com/docs/grafana/latest/developers/contribut...

Grafana requires you to sign a CLA before they will accept any work, which can be really expensive (unless you have in-house lawyers or don't care about understanding the real ramifications of a contract): https://grafana.com/docs/grafana/latest/developers/cla/

Is there anything nonstandard or suspicious about this CLA?

Re: I can't recommend serious use of an all-in-one local Grafana Loki setup

#18
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I don't believe that's entirely possible, but do you have a link to something demonstrating this behavior? A _very_ cursory google search didn't come up with anything immediately. Like this article might just be for show but its the first thing that came up ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ https://grafana.com/docs/grafana/latest/developers/contribut...

Grafana requires you to sign a CLA before they will accept any work, which can be really expensive (unless you have in-house lawyers or don't care about understanding the real ramifications of a contract): https://grafana.com/docs/grafana/latest/developers/cla/

That's a run-of-the-mill CLA.

Re: I can't recommend serious use of an all-in-one local Grafana Loki setup

#20
I’ve been using quickwit.io for some local data processing job logs and it seems to be very easy to run, not very IO intensive and running fine on a single node with modest hardware with >2 billion log rows. It has a really cool dynamic schema feature too.

I found it easier to setup and configure than Loki.

The UI is very basic for now but I’m excited to see what the future holds for this project!

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