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Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

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Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#201

Post by dazc »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #192
LeanderK wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a cyclist, I don't have an issue sharing space with other traffic, but I do have an issue with the hyper-aggressive drivers that seek to scare and/or injure cyclists by not giving them enough space when overtaking I haven't generally seen that in Germany, although I have only lived in cities with a generally good biking infrastructure. The only time when I get uncomfortably close is either due to fundamental inf…

I'm in the UK and it's very noticeable how much nicer the German drivers have been when I've gone there (just Munich and Berlin). Most surprising was when drivers were wanting to pull out of a side street, but waited patiently for cyclists to go past without any hint of impatience or anger.

In the UK we have 'Vehicle Excise Duty' which used to be known as 'Road Tax'. There is a commonly held misconception that this 'tax' goes directly to the provision and maintenance of the road network (it doesn't, it's just another tax), hence the entitlement of some car drivers when confronted with, what they perceive as, a cycling free-loader.

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#203

Post by Hanschri »

philip1209 wrote: post #188

Out of curiosity - what role, if any, does Norway's massive oil wealth play in these types of infrastructure projects? (Can the "pension fund" directly fund this?)

No, only about 3% of the yield is used in the state budget yearly. The oil fund does not invest any of its money in Norway in order to avoid dutch disease. It is not earmarked for any specific use, but instead gets used to make up the difference in tax revenue and state budget. NBIM has more information in English about the fund here: https://www.nbim.no/en/

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#204

Post by seri4l »

CrampusDestrus wrote: post #8

The best thing about pedestrian/cycling bridges and tunnels is that they cost soooo much less money to build since they have so much laxer requirements. The reason why we still have roman bridges standing is because the stress contribution of a human walking on it is basically zero. But start bringing in cars and trucks and see it crumble in a week

>But start bringing in cars and trucks and see it crumble in a week

There are some Roman bridges that still get automobile traffic (Römerbrücke, Puente Alcántara) or were only recently pedestrianized (Puente Romano). There are more probably, that's just what I found after skimming some Wikipedia pages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_bridge

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#205

Post by liotier »

Hanschri wrote: post #98

Bergen municipality released a 25 minute video[0] of the bike ride through the tunnel and into the downtown area of Bergen. If 'sakte TV' or slow TV is something you like, I could also recommend checking out The Bergen Line minute by minute[1], which is a seven hour broadcast of the train going between Bergen and Oslo. A peaceful and beautiful train ride. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42q15E2YE8Y [1]: https://…

Other large cycling tunnels:

- Rotterdam's Maas Tunnel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6UUinjhQgM

- Antwerp's Kennedytunnel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7CsUnQ5BY0

- Paris' Parc des Rives de Seine's tunnel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAIXHVolUmg

- England's Tyne Tunnel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR4je-ndz7E

- Nam Han River's tunnel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFNrxpeLtAU

- Lyon's Tunnel de la Croix-Rousse, with yours truly pedalling through it: https://youtu.be/JDvBNsVMkRc?list=PLBcwv3gb0JkpDlYfh-yfBWqtS...

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#206

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

dazc wrote: post #201
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the UK and it's very noticeable how much nicer the German drivers have been when I've gone there (just Munich and Berlin). Most surprising was when drivers were wanting to pull out of a side street, but waited patiently for cyclists to go past without any hint of impatience or anger.

In the UK we have 'Vehicle Excise Duty' which used to be known as 'Road Tax'. There is a commonly held misconception that this 'tax' goes directly to the provision and maintenance of the road network (it doesn't, it's just another tax), hence the entitlement of some car drivers when confronted with, what they perceive as, a cycling free-loader.

For extra irony, sometimes those drivers are in EVs that also pay no emissions tax.

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#207

Post by 542354234235 »

wunderland wrote: post #184
jtr1 wrote: post #177

What sort of civil society groups are there advocating for this kind of infrastructure in Norway? I’m always curious how people organize to achieve these outcomes. I live in a medium sized city in the US that is badly in need of better cycling infrastructure. There are a few organizations here, but vision is lacking or has been beaten out of them. I’d love to have some sort of organizing / policy toolkit that factors…

The civil society groups and local governments that advocate for this sort of thing exist in the US too. What Norway doesn't have (and much of Europe) is a powerful auto lobby that has prevented this sort of infrastructure for decades and forced cities to be built in giant suburban sprawls.

There was also a specific path of development that many cities took in the mid-20th century that make public transit development now very difficult. Carving up downtown areas of cities with Parkways/Expressways/Highways, pushed heavily by influential urban planner Robert Moses in New York State, and copied in many other major US cities, makes it difficult to move from one area of a city to another without a car. The building of massive, unattractive public housing projects, and the hollowing out of urban areas due to redlining and “white flight” to the suburbs, now leave huge swaths of urban cities with decades of underinvestment. And finally, you have the massive suburbs, that take more money to build and maintain than they put back in through taxes, which causes a parasitic drain on the urban centers funds to spend on improved transit that isn’t focused on more car infrastructure to “keep up” with more and more cars streaming in and out from those suburbs.

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#208

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

prmoustache wrote: post #87
wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #26

In Amsterdam a bridge over the water connecting Central Amsterdam with the North is always a hot topic, for decades of talking about it sill hasn't materialized. A few serious alternatives that were proposed where tunnels for bikes. But they consistently decide not to do it because of safety concerns at night. Which is hopefully a bigger issue in Amsterdam than Bergen.

Some people probably think the city look worse because of them but there are some really nice cycling+pedestrian bridges in Copenhagen.

There's also the very poorly designed Inderhavnsbro bridge. It looks nice enough, but they just made some dumb choices in how they've laid it out.

https://www.archdaily.com/868904/copenhagens-latest-piece-of...

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#209

Post by atombender »

philip1209 wrote: post #188

Out of curiosity - what role, if any, does Norway's massive oil wealth play in these types of infrastructure projects? (Can the "pension fund" directly fund this?)

All petroleum surpluses go into the Government Pension Fund Global (one of three wealth funds that the government manages). The state is allowed to withdraw from this fund, mostly to cover shortfalls in the state budget.

The target maximum withdrawal rate since 2018 has been 3%. This rate is a guideline only, and the government is allowed to exceed it. Since 2000, in most years the withdrawal rate has much far below the limit (see charts here [1]), but sometimes exceeded, most recently in in 2020 and 2021.

[1] https://www.regjeringen.no/no/tema/okonomi-og-budsjett/norsk...

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#210

Post by smugma »

arethuza wrote: post #200
wartijn_ wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and Albania. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_a...

That's averages over the whole countries though - the north and west of the UK (particularly the Scottish Highlands and the Lake District) are a lot wetter than the south-east where London is. Also, "volume of rain" might be misleading because it doesn't give you a feeling for how often it rains. The Highlands in particular can have a light rain that falls for weeks at a time (or at least seems like it if you are in…

Most of the Bay Area gets about the same amount of rain as London. The key difference is that in Cupertino/Los Gators/Palo Alto it rains less often but with more intensity.
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