Earlier quoted context omitted.
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But that's not what I implied
I know, I was making fun. Just putting bike and trucks in the same sentence and comparing their infrastructure needs is already too far for me.
Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway
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Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway
#52Why can't we support and encourage cycling without vilifying cars in these threads? I've seen plenty of places that do both very well, like Spain. Everybody has a car and bicycle (at least one) and uses whatever fits the purpose at the time. I get it, when there's not cycling infrastructure everybody is forced to take the car even if it doesn't make any sense, like for short trips, good weather, single passenger, no…
> Why can't we support and encourage cycling without vilifying cars in these threads?
Because cars pollute the air I breath, car horns constantly stress me, because politicians and city planners will use cars as a justification to develop cities as asphalt wastelands, because pedestrians and bikers are killed daily by unruly car drivers and so on. Plus somehow cars manage to bring out the worst in every person. Road rage is a thing.
> Everybody has a car and bicycle (at least one) and uses whatever fits the purpose at the time.
I don't have a car. I either bike, walk or use public transportation. I don't even live in an area where public transportation is great.
> scooters and motorcycles are often a better compromise
Still deadly in accidents and still polluting. The only thing that would make sense is low speed electric scooters, but those dont work well either in suburban sprawls like the US and Canada have.
Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway
#53It's the escape tunnel for a tram tunnel with an extra coat of paint: https://www.lifeinnorway.net/bergen-cycle-tunnel/
The tram line in Bergen was discontinued in 1965. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergen_Tramway
Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway
#54The best thing about pedestrian/cycling bridges and tunnels is that they cost soooo much less money to build since they have so much laxer requirements. The reason why we still have roman bridges standing is because the stress contribution of a human walking on it is basically zero. But start bringing in cars and trucks and see it crumble in a week
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Last mile shipping for many goods can definitely be served by bicycles.
https://scm.dk/sites/default/files/styles/2400px/public/carg...
Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway
#55The best thing about pedestrian/cycling bridges and tunnels is that they cost soooo much less money to build since they have so much laxer requirements. The reason why we still have roman bridges standing is because the stress contribution of a human walking on it is basically zero. But start bringing in cars and trucks and see it crumble in a week
Eh, not exactly. Pedestrians are heavier than cars in terms of pounds per square foot. Bridges are designed for extreme loads, including pessimistic pattern loading, and the requirements for pedestrian bridges aren’t any less safety critical. (edit: I designed this bridge: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.597616,-122.3297804,3a,75y,7... )
Ok I'm clearly talking to an expert here but isn't there a factor of vibration from vehicle traffic to take into account? And sure humans if packed into a bridge might be heavier than cars per square foot, but they're usually not packed like sardines on a bridge.
Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway
#56Only tangentially related, but I'm a bit dissapointed by Google Maps: when searching for this tunnel (and the tram line that it doubles as an escape tunnel for), all the copyright notices are from 2023, but there is no trace of it to be seen. I was expecting to at least see the construction works (these things usually take years to complete), but nothing. And there's also no "transit" layer for Bergen. Gotta do better than that Google if you want to be seen as "eco-friendly", offering fuel-saving driving alternatives doesn't quite cut it... Bing Maps is a bit better, it shows some early to mid stage construction work - it looks like the area of the tunnel mouth has been cleared, and an overpass has been constructed for a road, but no tracks to be seen anywhere yet. And the imagery is lower-res than Google Maps. And no transit layer either...
Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway
#57I'm jealous. If my country built a tunnel like that, it would be for cars only (preferably old polluting diesel, with fuel subsidies), so that "normal people" can use it. With an added whiff of coal power plant smoke.
Oh well. Growing civilized takes time.
Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Eh, not exactly. Pedestrians are heavier than cars in terms of pounds per square foot. Bridges are designed for extreme loads, including pessimistic pattern loading, and the requirements for pedestrian bridges aren’t any less safety critical. (edit: I designed this bridge: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.597616,-122.3297804,3a,75y,7... )
Ok I'm clearly talking to an expert here but isn't there a factor of vibration from vehicle traffic to take into account? And sure humans if packed into a bridge might be heavier than cars per square foot, but they're usually not packed like sardines on a bridge.
Famous example of pedestrian bridge resonances: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Bridge,_London#Re...
Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway
#59In Amsterdam a bridge over the water connecting Central Amsterdam with the North is always a hot topic, for decades of talking about it sill hasn't materialized. A few serious alternatives that were proposed where tunnels for bikes. But they consistently decide not to do it because of safety concerns at night. Which is hopefully a bigger issue in Amsterdam than Bergen.
In Rotterdam they close the Maastunnel to cyclists and pedestrians at night. There are also people stationed in it during the day at either end. I don't see why Amsterdam couldn't do the same.
Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
But that's not what I implied
I know, I was making fun. Just putting bike and trucks in the same sentence and comparing their infrastructure needs is already too far for me.
But there wasn't any joke, nor any argument. You just popped up out of the blue stating a feeling you have - unrelated to the thread.