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On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

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Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#321

Post by Xixi »

sgjohnson wrote: post #285
Xixi wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might have been traumatized by US visa process, but in my mind "immigrant" has a very specific meaning: moving to a country with the intent of settling there permanently. And the US is very strict on that meaning: when I went to the US my work visa was explicitly non-immigrant, and calling myself an immigrant at the US embassy when applying for the visa, or while crossing the US border would have resulted in the de…

> when I went to the US my work visa was explicitly non-immigrant, and calling myself an immigrant at the US embassy when applying for the visa, or while crossing the US border would have resulted in the denial of my visa, or the denial of my entry in the US. At least that's what the attorney drilled into my head... H1B is dual-intent. You are allowed to have an immigrant intent when applying for H1B, so no, nobody w…

It was an E-2 visa (as "essential manager", not investor...), so not H1B. But again, that's what the attorney told me, maybe he just wanted to be super extra careful. But notice the nonimmigrant wording on the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services website [1]: "The E-2 nonimmigrant classification allows a national of a treaty country...". My employer did propose to sponsor a green card application, so I had a path to permanent residency. I wasn't interested: I had the firm intention of going back to Japan.

Anyway: my point is that "immigrant" and "expat" are not synonyms: "immigrant" has a much narrower meaning, which has absolutely nothing to do with coming from a poor country or a rich country.

[1] https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary...

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#322

Post by dang »

hoseja wrote: post #20

[flagged]

I appreciate a good rant in certain contexts, but this is not the place for it.

That's not an ethical point, btw—it's about the dynamics of different genres (or if you like, the McLuhan point about the medium dominating the message). The format of the large, flat internet forum is not able to sustain comments like what you posted here. Even if 99.99% of the audience has no problem with the rant, the other 0.01% is enough to completely destroy the thread if triggered—and believe me, someone is going to get triggered.

The downside of trying to operate a forum like HN, along the principles outlined in https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html, is that we're all subject to a certain blandness.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#323

Post by Lacerda69 »

AdamN wrote: post #166
Lacerda69 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is only correct for a very small number of hip cafes and restaurants in certain districts tbh. You can employ germans indefinitely without "proper" contract as well through something called "Minijob" and the majority of cafes and restaurant skirt the law and let you work without paying taxes "illegally". Most of the ppl working there are students or in between careers. Only a fraction of the staff will be employ…

My wife tried to check into a fancy hotel (nothing hip) in Berlin and the receptionist only spoke English (and presumably some other language). It's not just hipster restaurants. Even when the person does speak German, they're often not a native speaker and speak better English.

correct, hotels/accommodations are another sector that is run mostly through students and minijobbers.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#324

Post by ben_w »

wendyshu wrote: post #289
ben_w wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm British by birth, I chose Berlin after Brexit because: 1. Friends here 2. Alternative countries were Luxembourg/Switzerland (more expensive); Canada (worse weather); Ireland (fear I might get blamed personally for the stupid done by British politicians, and the UK Gov was being loudly stupid about Ireland at the time); USA (weird culture, guns); Australia/New Zealand (too far from the old country to visit regular…

Why are you afraid of police with guns?

I don't know which country you're from, but the normal thing in the UK (where I'm from) is no gun at all, and when I've traveled abroad previously the most was a pistol.

There have been occasional exceptions in the UK, as noted in other comments, but in the case of what I saw in Belgium it was the combination of armed police being a rare experience for me plus the gun in question looking exceptionally large.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#325

Post by worklaptopacct »

systemtest wrote: post #203
jillesvangurp wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that is specific to Berlin is that increasingly bars and cafes are staffed by foreigners. This is a quirk of the German employment system, a scarcity of staff, and the wide availability of expats in need of gigs. Instead of hiring permanent staff and paying them a salary, it's less risky to have temporary workers. However, you can't do that endlessly with the same people in the German system. You would have…

If you stay and open a restaurant in Berlin, presumably for the long term, wouldn't that make you an immigrant? There is a Syrian bakery in my street and people don't call him an expat.

To me it's more or less: if you move countries with an intent to stay, then you're an immigrant. Otherwise, you're an expat. Of course an expat my become an immigrant if they decide to take roots in a place.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#326

Post by DoreenMichele »

vanderZwan wrote: post #310
DoreenMichele wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definition: a result of a sudden impulse and without premeditation Spontaneously would be "Let's go do x right now at y place." not "Let's pencil this half-baked plan into our calendars and finalize some details at that time." In English, we have the abbreviation TBD (to be determined) if you want to note that some details haven't yet been finalized.

We also have "to be determined" as an expression in Dutch, but in this particular context that would imply "to be determined later than now but before we meet " to Dutch (and presumably German) ears. Other comments insist that something is only spontaneous if it was done without forethought. If we decide to not think about where to go until we meet, then have we given "where to go" any forethought? My gut feeling say…

The reality is that if people know there is an event coming up that they have some say in, they will tend to think about where to go or what to in the interim. It will probably result in a different decision than a truly spontaneous decision with no prior contemplation.

That's not a bad thing. It will probably tend to improve the outcome on average.

It's just not what the word spontaneously means in English. And you asked.

Living language evolves. It's not a big deal. But that's simply not the current meaning of that English word for the Anglosphere.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#327

Post by m_fayer »

wheels wrote: post #311
m_fayer wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I moved to Berlin 15 years ago, this was not the case. Many bars and cafes were staffed by German-speaking people in their 30s - underpaid artistic or intellectual types or professional partiers making an extra buck. This had a particular charm - they were often cranky and unconcerned, but they kept the same job for a long time and you could get to know them and feel like a "regular." This kept me returning to t…

I've been in Berlin for 17 years, and in my early days in Berlin, a room in a shared apartment could be found for as little as €75/month (e.g. 6 bedroom apartment), and studio apartments could be found for €250/month. Hell, I paid €450/month for my 2 bedroom (3. Zimmer in German parlance) in Alt-Treptow (800 meters from Schlesicher Str., where I worked). That opened up a lot of quirky social possibilities because the…

> That opened up a lot of quirky social possibilities because the floor for survival was so low in Berlin.

All those quirky possibilities are a tragically underappreciated consequence of having a low cost of living in a place where you'd actually want to live.

I'm agnostic as to whether we try to achieve that through some sort of basic income or by other means - I just really hope that we try, both to alleviate poverty and to see the explosion of cultural and technological innovation that will surely follow.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#328

Post by joaonmatos »

worklaptopacct wrote: post #325
systemtest wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you stay and open a restaurant in Berlin, presumably for the long term, wouldn't that make you an immigrant? There is a Syrian bakery in my street and people don't call him an expat.

To me it's more or less: if you move countries with an intent to stay, then you're an immigrant. Otherwise, you're an expat. Of course an expat my become an immigrant if they decide to take roots in a place.

I’ve seen retired Brits live in southern Spain and Portugal for 20+ years calling themselves expats and not making any effort to integrate, even though they have all the intent of staying there and not returning to England.

So expat/immigrant seems like a very social/economic background distinction.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#329

Post by WeylandYutani »

actionfromafar wrote: post #212
ghaff wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably depends on the specifics. In Asia, I've known a fair number of Europeans who have lived there for a significant period of time and I would still think of them as expats.

I thought the "joke" was that expats are white, immigrants are not?

I make a distinction between a highly educated Japanese person working at a university and a boat refugee from Sudan.

Got nothing to do with race. We are a civilised people we judge on economics.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#330

Post by TurkishPoptart »

>Rather more disturbing — particularly here in Neukölln, a neighbourhood copiously populated by leftie Americans and families from the Middle East — is the Arabic-German barber shop called WHITE BOSS.

Not sure why that's disturbing. I imagine if it were a different color, the author would have no issue with it.

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