Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens • Hacker News Board

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#951

Post by brokenmachine » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 4:40 AM UTC

jclardy wrote: post #735

ConcernedCoder wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that my touch screen will often display a distracting message that reminds me that it's unsafe to take my eyes off the road while driving and require someone to touch the "ok" button to dismiss it is the epitome of dangerous stupidity...

Yes, it is the most useless thing ever. I think my truck displays it maybe once per day? It isn't every drive, which ends up making it worse because I look to tap on the radio and I have to first reach across the entire display to hit OK, then wait for it to load, then tap the radio...If it was every drive I could just be programmed to tap the button without looking at it, which of course defeats the purpose of it in…

Don't complain or they'll make it a captcha.

"Please click all the images of bicycles to access volume controls".

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#952

Post by brokenmachine » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 4:43 AM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #677

nicky0 wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in a rainstorm and the wipers are set to "minimum speed" then turning the speed up would be critical.

The safe thing to do would be to pull over first, as you see the rain getting heavier, then adjust.

Shut up Elon. Your cars suck.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#953

Post by webworker » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 5:13 AM UTC

patentatt wrote: post #752

acapybara wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our Subaru has a physical volume knob. Its position is only a "gentle suggestion" to the software to move volume up or down. At times, especially when starting the vehicle, there is major latency in the software processing the knob movement.. Also, if the knob is moved too fast, the sw gets the wrong reading. This results in volume being way too high for serveral seconds as well as many other frustrating, dangerous s…

I guess that's what we get when a rotary encoder is much much less expensive than a 4-6 gang potentiometer. And I also feel your pain with the car "booting up" phenomenon. I don't even have a particularly tech-heavy vehicle and upon starting the car the entire infotainment system feels like booting up a packard bell in 1996.

Packard bell comment made me laugh :)

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#954

Post by Gordonjcp » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 5:57 AM UTC

nyanpasu64 wrote: post #946

Gordonjcp wrote: post #782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I adapted the very old FM/AM, cassette, and external CD changer in my very old Range Rover to have Bluetooth because it doesn't have an aux input and my phone doesn't have a headphone jack anyway, and I want to listen to music or audiobooks off it when I'm driving. I looked into reversing the protocol between the CD jukebox and the stereo, and using an Arduino to inject the appropriate commands - maybe even get the "…

I'm personally a fan of mushroom hooks (3M Dual Lock) besides the high price, because it's less spiky than Velcro and has more lateral rigidity (though unfortunately you need 3 pieces on each side in a triangle for a robust stable mount free of tilting wobbling). Though I actually wouldn't recommend it for mounting a phone; I added a piece to my phone case, but took it off because it kept catching onto my hand and su…

I actually stuck the velcro to a cheapy Otterbox rubber sleeve knockoff rather than the phone, which has some weird sticky-thing-repelling coating that the Velcro wouldn't stick to.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#955

Post by Gordonjcp » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 5:58 AM UTC

scotteric wrote: post #939

Gordonjcp wrote: post #919

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from north-west Scotland. Many years ago we had a guy working for us who was sent over from our company's parent company in Southern Cali. He was not keen on going out in the rain at all, and was absolutely terrified that we still drove at 60mph when it was raining. "But what if you skid? It's raining!" he'd wail. He'd never driven in rain. He just did not take well to a Scottish January, especially the bit where…

When it rains after being dry for some time an oil layer forms on top of the water. This is why he is afraid of skidding. In Southern California, where it is very dry there can be very substantial oil buildup.

You get that a little bit here, but not enough to make a real difference.

I guess we also have laws about keeping cars in good condition with decent tyres and stuff.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#956

Post by pdc56 » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 6:49 AM UTC

subienewbie wrote: post #835

acapybara wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our Subaru has a physical volume knob. Its position is only a "gentle suggestion" to the software to move volume up or down. At times, especially when starting the vehicle, there is major latency in the software processing the knob movement.. Also, if the knob is moved too fast, the sw gets the wrong reading. This results in volume being way too high for serveral seconds as well as many other frustrating, dangerous s…

This seems to be the head of the Subaru thread. If you have any hope at all for Subaru to get better at software development, abandon it here. Subaru is a high watermark in my career for: - "us-vs-them" fighting between "IT" and "Business" - Siloing of teams within IT - Team bloat / retention of non-operative team members

More please! Would love to know more

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#957

Post by wkat4242 » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 6:52 AM UTC

byyll wrote: post #904

wkat4242 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That physical button that takes 500ms to respond is still as dangerous. You've just removed one problem. Major accidents are almost always a cascade of errors. It may not be perfect, but not having to take eyes off the road can really break the chain of a big accident in progress. A touchscreen UI probably won't cause an accident on its own, but it will be a link in the chain of a driver already tired and lost in t…

Is there a reason not to have auto start and auto stop headlights?

Yes there are reasons why people want to override them sometimes and this needs to be reverted.

My dad used to sleep in his car for an hour before work, with the engine on to provide heating in winter. Because traffic was too bad an hour later. Just one of the many examples.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#958

Post by Lio » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 7:07 AM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #909

Lio wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's all that abstract. We know that phone using drivers perform worse than drink drivers. They regularly kill people because they're not concentrating on what's in front of them. If you change the car's UI from something with low latency[1] to something with much greater latency[2] then you are definitely putting others at higher risk because drivers spend longer not concentrating on driving. -- 1. See…

Then why is anyone skating for the decision to abandon buttons in the first place? The driver is responsible for paying attention to the road rather than fiddling with the radio.

> Then why is anyone skating for the decision to abandon buttons in the first place?

Cost.

My guess would be that manufacturers want touchscreens because they're cheaper to develop and implement than an inventory of individual physical controls.

Adding a new touchscreen widget to a car that's already in production is just an over the air software upgrade vs a very expensive redesign/recall for physical controls.

Drivers don't think through the consequences of the control system at the time of purchase or have it as a low priority compared to things like purchase price.

I think it's pretty easy to tell yourself that your not going to mess with a screen while driving but in reality it's much harder to fight that compulsion. If it wasn't then we wouldn't need the "I'm Not Driving" feature on phones.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#959

Post by Lio » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 7:38 AM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #908

martyvis wrote: post #815

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure it's the type of thing in an Elon meeting he would say "Surely we can think of a solution better than relying on drivers to provide meaningful input to the desired outcome?"

Surely the ideal is the wiper is always moving at the perfectly desired speed and interval without any human intervention required.

That's the UX designer's trap.

Yes, in theory it would be best to have the perfect speed without intervention but there isn't one perfect speed for the conditions.

The speed the driver wants changes from driver to driver and might depend not just on how much rain is coming down but on the amount of traffic on the road, proximity to pedestrians, eye sight and time of day and any number of other factors.

It's always going to be better to have an automatic system that can be tweaked by the driver because everyone is different. The more easily the driver can do that without thinking the better.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#960

Post by Lio » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 7:57 AM UTC

DeathArrow wrote: post #512

jjav wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what? You've got physical buttons? Big whoop. That physical button that takes 500ms to respond is still as dangerous. No, that's wrong. Problem with touchscreens is that (1) you need to look at them and (2) there is no tactile feedback of whether you pressed it or not and (3) you need to hover your arm in a moving car at just the right spot. Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems. If the ac…

Yes, but if you are bored from a long drive, you can watch some commercials on the screen or navigate 20 submenus to move the AC one degree up or down. Are you sure you want to modify the temperature? Please read the following agreement and type I AGREE if you agree.

That's a great idea. They could even allow you to rent features in exchange for watching more ads.

Features like Heated Seats, Navigation, Spotify ...and Brakes.

Coming to dystopian future BMW, Tesla, Mercedes (terms and conditions may apply). :(