Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram • Hacker News Board

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#221

Post by jalbertoni » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 9:04 PM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #200

jalbertoni wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The stroke of a pen makes police do whatever they want so yeah. You mean like when an order telling the police to remove people camped in front of military bases asking for a coup was signed in early December, but it took until the actual coup attempt in January for the police to actually do anything about it? Okay, no, let's be completely fair. The police was since December making sure the camped people didn't spi…

> You mean like I mean like when they walked all over the constitution by censoring Bolsonaro supporters left and right. Literal unabashed unconstitutional censorship, openly biased against Bolsonaro at that. There's plenty wrong with the literal concentration camp they set up in Brasília too. People imprisoned without any charges. Only recently did they vote to turn some of them into actual defendants. Not to mentio…

> There's plenty wrong with the literal concentration camp they set up in Brasília too. People imprisoned without any charges. Only recently did they vote to turn some of them into actual defendants.

Welcome to the life of anyone accused of any charge in Brazil. The Criminal Process Code (Código de Processo Penal) allows for up to 81 days of jail without a charge. After that time ends they can just release you without a charge and you can't do anything about it.

If at any time before that period ends, if the prosecutor's office has started any form of case you can still be held for at least more 102 days before your trial, up to 180 if anything that delays any part of the process happens.

This happens every single day in this country to many persons and the media is only making a fuss because now it happened to a bunch of rich white people with a charge that doesn't allow for bail / habeas corpus. I am totally in favor of changing it, but I don't think my reasons are the same as yours, sadly.

> There's videos of him literally saying his objective is to install socialism in Brazil.

Lula is just like Joe Biden. Makes for nice strawman arguments, but anyone who stops and thinks on what they can realistically accomplish will see they're more of the same, except with a rainbow flag coating.

Words are empty without action, and Congress is set to stop any action; Just like for the previous 10 years PT was in power, where they at best passed a few stopgap measures that did nothing to stop the long term destruction of the middle class that started in the 80s, further throwing Brazil into inequality.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#222

Post by vitorgrs » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 9:47 PM UTC

0xy wrote: post #179

vitorgrs wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying all the opposition are nazi? Because this was literally a nazi group called ""卐 Frente Anti-Semita 卐""

And? The opposition organizes on Telegram, and it's a way bigger target.

Even the current government has telegram channels lol. This has nothing to do with it. It was done by a judge, not the government.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#223

Post by NayamAmarshe » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 12:13 AM UTC

IYasha wrote: post #214

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cloud encryption is what I linked, the Server-Client encryption. Just below it, you can see E2E.

E2E is not available on all platforms, is hidden in obscure menus and the whole UI discourages users from using it. Telegram is a data-harvesting social goolag-oriented network after all. :-/

That would be a pessimistic way to see it.

The greatest feature that telegram offers is cloud sync. Everybody knows the limitations E2EE comes with. There's no way you could have thousands of members in a group on Signal.

Along with that, the ability to manage device sessions and to login on multiple devices with full chat sync is extremely unique to Telegram.

You're asking them to ditch that in favor of inferior UX, which they simply cannot do at this point.

But I do hear the valid complaints. I do believe they should improve MTProto 2.0 to work on multiple devices and in groups. Their implementation is fine for 1-1 chats but having something better than that is always welcome.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#224

Post by 0xy » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 12:35 AM UTC

vitorgrs wrote: post #222

0xy wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And? The opposition organizes on Telegram, and it's a way bigger target.

Even the current government has telegram channels lol. This has nothing to do with it. It was done by a judge, not the government.

You appear to be implying Brazilian judges are not politicized, which seems laughable given the Supreme Court as well as the message leaks.

Brazilian judges are not even in the same realm of impartiality as some first world countries. This appeal to authority falls flat, as it would if you implied Venezuelan judges were impartial.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#225

Post by rektide » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 1:34 AM UTC

voltaireodactyl wrote: post #208

rektide wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I don't have any servers in your nation, I don't see how you could possibly even begin to regard me as having expanded into your nation. Your people are leaving your nation to come to me. That seems quite factually rooted.

> If I don't have any servers in your nation, I don't see how you could possibly even begin to regard me as having expanded into your nation. Simple — by making sales and/or servicing customers for profit in my region, your business has “expanded” into my region. Server location is irrelevant — as you’ve pointed out, the internet is everywhere.

You need to disconnect yourself if you are going to have authoritarian stances over every place your people can connect to. Your fake dominion over others will never happen nor should it. What a trash fire impossible facetiously crap un hackable perspective you offer. Complete egocentristic imposition, that those who connect can dictate terms. A joke. Absolutely the hell not.

Do you have even a single token offering to make? Is there any limit whatsoever in any way that anyone connecting from afar should have? Or should theirocal laws immediately apply in full force wherever they connect? That seems to be the stance here.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#226

Post by matheusmoreira » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 1:42 AM UTC

jalbertoni wrote: post #221

matheusmoreira wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You mean like I mean like when they walked all over the constitution by censoring Bolsonaro supporters left and right. Literal unabashed unconstitutional censorship, openly biased against Bolsonaro at that. There's plenty wrong with the literal concentration camp they set up in Brasília too. People imprisoned without any charges. Only recently did they vote to turn some of them into actual defendants. Not to mentio…

> There's plenty wrong with the literal concentration camp they set up in Brasília too. People imprisoned without any charges. Only recently did they vote to turn some of them into actual defendants. Welcome to the life of anyone accused of any charge in Brazil. The Criminal Process Code (Código de Processo Penal) allows for up to 81 days of jail without a charge. After that time ends they can just release you withou…

> I am totally in favor of changing it, but I don't think my reasons are the same as yours, sadly.

Good, then we are in agreement. I don't know what you think my reasons are but the result is the same in the end.

> anyone who stops and thinks on what they can realistically accomplish

I'd rather not take my chances with a known communist in power. In 2009-2010 he faced heavy resistance when he tried to push socialistic stuff. Now he basically owns the supreme court and the same media that resisted him back then is backing everything he does. Only chance this country has is to somehow get rid of him and put the vice president in charge. They needed him to get Bolsonaro out but now he's overstayed his welcome.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#227

Post by matheusmoreira » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 1:48 AM UTC

dormento wrote: post #219

suslik wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jailing people for that is beyond horrible. Why would anyone want to appoint a legal representative in a country that does things like that, I have no idea.

To be able to "do business" there, whatever it may entail. Contrary to the popular held opinion on certain online communities, businesses must respect local laws and regulations to be able to conduct their activities.

The only "law" the executive broke was making the judge angry. Even the other judges acknowledged he was wrongly detained and released him. Says so in the article.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#228

Post by matheusmoreira » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 1:54 AM UTC

dormento wrote: post #220

matheusmoreira wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> There are videos of him preaching ideas like having the government give everyone what they need to "survive" Oh no! People should _not_ have what they need to survive. Anything but that! I mean, won't somebody think of the investors?

Oh please. Get a job instead of expecting the government to hand it out to you.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#229

Post by vitorgrs » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 2:46 AM UTC

0xy wrote: post #224

vitorgrs wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the current government has telegram channels lol. This has nothing to do with it. It was done by a judge, not the government.

You appear to be implying Brazilian judges are not politicized, which seems laughable given the Supreme Court as well as the message leaks. Brazilian judges are not even in the same realm of impartiality as some first world countries. This appeal to authority falls flat, as it would if you implied Venezuelan judges were impartial.

The group has nazi symbols, and is called "Anti-Semitic movement". This is not even remotely political.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#230

Post by voltaireodactyl » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 3:22 AM UTC

rektide wrote: post #225

voltaireodactyl wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I don't have any servers in your nation, I don't see how you could possibly even begin to regard me as having expanded into your nation. Simple — by making sales and/or servicing customers for profit in my region, your business has “expanded” into my region. Server location is irrelevant — as you’ve pointed out, the internet is everywhere.

You need to disconnect yourself if you are going to have authoritarian stances over every place your people can connect to. Your fake dominion over others will never happen nor should it. What a trash fire impossible facetiously crap un hackable perspective you offer. Complete egocentristic imposition, that those who connect can dictate terms. A joke. Absolutely the hell not. Do you have even a single token offering…

Gotta say, I think we’re speaking past each other here. I don’t understand what is authoritarian about believing a business entity wishing to sell their goods and services to a region should do such business by the laws of said region. After all, you’re using the region’s public infrastructure to do business.

I’m also a bit disappointed this is where your line of argument has ended up. I have many, many flaws, but a desire for absolute power is not among them.

Indeed, advocating for respecting a diverse range of locales, with a diverse range of laws, would seem to me to provide far more freedom than a system of centralized control under a single, for-profit structure. Isn’t that what free market advocates are always harping about? Competition of the marketplace?

I agree my fake dominion over others will never happen, nor should it! But I remain puzzled as to why you’re so stridently coming after me in defense of a system that prioritizes the right of the ruling class to make money over all other concerns. Historically, such systems tend heavily and inevitably toward the authoritarianism you so eloquently rage against.