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On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

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Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#301

Post by nunuvit »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #282
nologic01 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is from the English Wikipedia. [1] Nowhere in the article is there any hint that the term is perceived as problematic by native English speakers or that it has racial overtonens. If indeed there is a critical mass of people who feel offended by it, you know what you need to do :-) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_model

The article about the actual people the anglo saxons does reinforce their point though. > The history of the Anglo-Saxons is the history of a cultural identity. It developed from divergent groups in association with the people's adoption of Christianity and was integral to the founding of various kingdoms. > Catherine Hills summarised the views of many modern scholars in her observation that attitudes towards Anglo-S…

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Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#302

Post by ben_w »

dfawcus wrote: post #286
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ireland (fear I might get blamed personally for the stupid done by British politicians, and the UK Gov was being loudly stupid about Ireland at the time Just to be clear, this basically would never happen with most people. Now, the North of Ireland (the part still in the UK) might be a little different, but most Irish (i.e. republic) people couldn't give two sh*ts about where you're from as long as you're good crai…

"as long as you're good craic." Now that is an interesting usage. I take it as using "crack" in an expansive sense of "company" rather than simply "news" or "gossip"? (Possibly something which may confuse non native speakers of English.)

Comedian Dara O'Brien wanted to name one of his shows something like "Good craic", but was told he couldn't because the British would colossally misunderstand.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#303

Post by nunuvit »

derriz wrote: post #245
secondcoming wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish non-native English speakers would not use the term “Anglo-Saxon” I quite like it and find it endearing. I'm definitely not of actual Anglo-Saxon stock but if non-English use that term then they're free to do so. Everyone knows what they mean. There are zero racial overtones associated with it.

Good for you. I mean that without sarcasm. I most certainly am not and don’t consider myself Anglo-Saxon in any way although English is my mother tongue. I would consider referring to New Zealand (for example - not my home country) as “Anglo-Saxon” quite insulting to Māori. But I disagree with your last claim - there most certainly are racial overtones associated with it. Nobody would ever refer to Barack Obama, MLK,…

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Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#304

Post by TRiG_Ireland »

rocketbop wrote: post #234
bolanyo wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is unreasonable to live permanently in a country without speaking the local language But what if there are countries where the 'local language' eventually becomes like Irish in Ireland? Everyone who goes to school in the Republic of Ireland will learn some Irish at school. Almost every Irish person will know some Irish expressions, Irish songs, and be aware of Irish-language culture and literature as well as Eng…

> If two native Irish people were in a hostage situation, held by English speakers who didn't know any Irish, and had to communicate without being understood, most would probably manage to do so. Perhaps, so long as what they needed to communicate was that either they wanted permission to go to the bathroom, or that they liked something in the room (most likely a girl, cake, or window).

Ah yes, the only Irish sentence you can guarantee everyone in the country knows.

An bhfuil cead agam dul go dtí an leithreas?

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#305

Post by larodi »

boffinAudio wrote: post #81
larodi wrote: post #62

(joke warning) The omnipresent English in Europe is the Mohammad English, a very simplified and useful version - spoken by most middle-eastern emigrant, and some Balkan residents. Next to it is the very distinct (by its accent) French-English.

Not funny. Prejudiced. The trope of "Mohammad in Germany" is sinister and should not be propagated in that realm.

Why is it prejudiced? This name is very common so if you actually have some levant friends there is very good chance they have this name. And with the influx of people from Pakistan and Levant this is a fact - they didn’t study English to know it well, but to survive in a hurry. Is sad and practical… should you want to label it. Like it or not. Perhaps you should also call prejudice that Ivan and Marsha is associated with slavic (if not Russian)…

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#306

Post by rzzzt »

flohofwoe wrote: post #118
mgraupner wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/de/worterbuch/englisch/spon... "spontaneously" translates to "spontan".

Yeah weird, the description "in a way that is natural, often sudden, and not planned or forced" is exactly the meaning in German too. Maybe "spontaneous" has different semantics between US and UK English?

This is what I was confused about as well. In the example the meetup itself could be held as non-spontaneous (telepaths spare the price of the phone call), but deciding on the place will still be done on a whim, off the cuff, impromptu, not before, impulsively. Spontaneously? :)

(On an unrelated note, let me share my favorite Anglicism that I've heard in a movie: "gekidnapped")

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#307

Post by rzzzt »

boffinAudio wrote: post #261
AdamN wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Austrian co-worker hates talking tech in German - it just doesn't roll of the tongue and he's more comfortable in English with that domain.

Same. I live in Vienna, and converse with my technical colleagues in English most of the time - although they do expect me to keep up with their crazy dialects over the coffee machine, an activity I find often quite fun, oida...

If you like comics, "Asterix speaks Viennese" might help: https://www.diepresse.com/5450586/asterix-auf-wienerisch-wap...

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#308

Post by pieter_mj »

schroeding wrote: post #65
FredPret wrote: post #16

The great strength of English is its uncanny ability to create new words and vacuum up material from other languages... and make it sound good. Other languages are left with the problem of Anglicisms where handy English words and phrases are imported but never sounds like natural parts of the language.

The ultimate champions in "new word creation" are languages which allow the creation of new compound words, though, like e.g. German. That's the way you get those hyper-specific words in "the language has a special word for the concept of " articles most of the time. :P "Neologismuskreierungsmeister" (new word creation champion)

Dutch is really close in compound word creation. Hottentottententententoonstelling : Exposition of the tents of the Hottentot people.

What I really like in English is how they verb nearly everything, especially nouns.

Where I cringe at, is Dutch and German pronunciation of English. There are very few non native English people with perfect pronunciation. European commissionary Frans Timmermans (who had his education in Belgium) and vrt journalist Johny Vansevant, who both have perfect British English pronunciation (Received pronunciation). Kim Clijsters speaks near perfect General American (but she lives there and has an American husband). I like Greta Thunberg's command and richness of vocabulary and grammar despite the accent.

I'm making a conscious effort to speak General American and follow a few youtube channels to get better all the time.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#309

Post by dfawcus »

ben_w wrote: post #302
dfawcus wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"as long as you're good craic." Now that is an interesting usage. I take it as using "crack" in an expansive sense of "company" rather than simply "news" or "gossip"? (Possibly something which may confuse non native speakers of English.)

Comedian Dara O'Brien wanted to name one of his shows something like "Good craic", but was told he couldn't because the British would colossally misunderstand.

Misunderstand in what manner? The written form, the spoken form, or some minor meaning?

The spoken "crack" has currency from around Yorkshire / Lancashire north, meaning "news" / "gossip" / "comversation", it'd not be confused.

South of there is isn't so common. Many folks in the northern part recognise the Irishised spelling, but not all.

Have a read of the first paragraph of this, which (as far as GB goes) is a fair summary:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craic

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#310

Post by vanderZwan »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #75
vanderZwan wrote: post #69

> The other day my friend S., an American Berliner, said that he had noticed his English-language social circle starting to use the word « spontaneously » wrong. When Germans say they’ll organise a social event spontan, they mean they’ll work out the details at short notice. To socialise spontaneously, in English, means something rather different. But S. and I and our Neukölln friends have started using it in the sen…

Definition: a result of a sudden impulse and without premeditation Spontaneously would be "Let's go do x right now at y place." not "Let's pencil this half-baked plan into our calendars and finalize some details at that time." In English, we have the abbreviation TBD (to be determined) if you want to note that some details haven't yet been finalized.

We also have "to be determined" as an expression in Dutch, but in this particular context that would imply "to be determined later than now but before we meet" to Dutch (and presumably German) ears.

Other comments insist that something is only spontaneous if it was done without forethought. If we decide to not think about where to go until we meet, then have we given "where to go" any forethought? My gut feeling says we haven't in a meaningful sense. In a meta-sense perhaps, because the decision is to think about it when we meet.

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