Live data from Hacker News

Even Apple employees hate Siri and are skeptical of its future, new report says

9to5mac.com

141–150 of 533 posts

Re: Even Apple employees hate Siri and are skeptical of its future, new report says

#141
MacRumors’ related article [0] has some more interesing details:

> By 2018, the team working on Siri had apparently "devolved into a mess, driven by petty turf battles between senior leaders and heated arguments over the direction of the assistant." Siri's leadership did not want to invest in building tools to analyse Siri's usage and engineers lacked the ability to obtain basic details such as how many people were using the virtual assistant and how often they were doing so. The data that was obtained about Siri coming from the data science and engineering team was simply not being used, with some former employees calling it "a waste of time and money."

> Many Apple employees purportedly left the company because it was too slow to make decisions or too conservative in its approach to new AI technologies, including the large-language models that underpin chatbots like ChatGPT. Apple CEO Tim Cook personally attempted to persuade engineers who helped Apple modernize its search technology to stay at the company, before they left to work on large-language models at Google.

> Apple executives are said to have dismissed proposals to give Siri the ability to conduct extended back-and-forth conversations, claiming that the feature would be difficult to control and gimmicky.

> Cook and other senior executives requested changes to Siri to prevent embarassing responses and the company prefers Siri's responses to be pre-written by a team of around 20 writers, rather than AI-generated. There were also specific decisions to exclude information such as iPhone prices from Siri to push users directly to Apple's website instead.

> Siri engineers working on the feature that uses material from the web to answer questions clashed with the design team over how accurate the responses had to be in 2019. The design team demanded a near-perfect accuracy rate before the feature could be released.

> Engineers claim to have spent months persuading Siri designers that not every one of its answers needed human verification, a limitation that made it impossible to scale up Siri to answer the huge number of questions asked by users. Similarly, Apple's design team repeatedly rejected the feature that enabled users to report a concern or issue with the content of a Siri answer, preventing machine-learning engineers from understanding mistakes, because it wanted Siri to appear "all-knowing."

> In 2019, the Siri team explored a project to rewrite the virtual assistant from scratch, codenamed "Blackbird." The effort sought to create a lightweight version of Siri that would delegate the creation of functions to app developers and would run on iPhones instead of the cloud to improve performance and privacy. Demos of Blackbird apparently prompted excitement among Apple employees owing to its utility and responsiveness. Blackbird competed with the work of two senior leaders on the Siri team who were responsible for helping Siri understand and respond to queries. These individuals pushed for their own project, codenamed " Siri X," for the 10th anniversary of the virtual assistant. The project simply aimed to move Siri's processing on-device for privacy reasons, without the lightweight, modular functionality of Blackbird. Hundreds of employees working on Blackbird were assigned to Siri X, which killed the ambitious project to make Siri more capable.

This seems completely dysfunctional.

[0] https://www.macrumors.com/2023/04/27/report-details-turmoil-...

Re: Even Apple employees hate Siri and are skeptical of its future, new report says

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"hey siri, start a 10 minute timer for the oven" "hey siri, set a 30 minute timer for the rice." it works just fine for me, use it all the time.

Doesn't work for me. I get this: >There's already a [number] minute timer. Replace? Confirm/Cancel Running iOS 16.1, so unless they added this feature in the last few months I'm not sure why we'd see different results. edit: Perhaps you're using HomePod? Apparently Siri on HomePod supports multiple timers, while Siri on iPhone does not. Goofy.

My Apple Watch supports multiple timers, and yet my iPhone does not (iOS 16.4.1).

I mean, I guess a watch is supposed to be for telling time or whatever, but this is just a weird feature omission…

Re: Even Apple employees hate Siri and are skeptical of its future, new report says

#143
post #91

Siri, don't make me even start. I like much of what Apple does, but Siri is just hilariously bad. The error rate at speech recognition seems to have gone up over the years. Keywords are randomly being changed, sometimes they fire, a day later you have to use a different phrase to get what you want. They even broke "Where am I" at least in German. "Wo bin ich" is sometimes replied to with "Sein oder nicht sein" (to be…

I found this on the web for "make me even start".

Re: Even Apple employees hate Siri and are skeptical of its future, new report says

#144
I’d love to see a survey of people’s hit/miss rate with Siri, but with the extra dimension of what accent they have and how thick it is. IME, Siri’s speech recognition is actually quite fantastic (I almost never have an issue with a dictated text message saying the wrong thing), but:

- I have a very standard midwest american accent

- I talk to siri like I’m a pilot talking to ATC: As clearly and succinctly as possible, never saying “umm”, “uh”, or having to correct myself, etc (this is actually an acquired skill that takes time)

- I generally know what things Siri can do well and what it can’t (I try to phrase things in ways I know is less likely for Siri to misinterpret)

My theory is that most people who have a bad experience either have a thick accent (and importantly don’t set the Siri language to something that matches their accent! there are multiple “English” settings in the Siri language, pick one that matches your accent!), don’t speak clearly/mumble, have a lot of noise in the environment, or some combination of the above.

Re: Even Apple employees hate Siri and are skeptical of its future, new report says

#145
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst part about Siri in my opinion is how it can do bulk actions when it mishears you. You want the ceiling light off? Okay, turning off all the lights. Or the opposite, it turns *everything* on, which can be even more annoying.

They're all complete crap. I use Google Home to ONLY turn my lights on or off and it gets it like 60% of the time. Sometimes it accepts the command and it just doesn't even work and says something went wrong. Pressing the light button in the app is 100% consistent. Incredible.

I've been superstitiously switching between "turn the lights off" and "turn off the lights" (also with music). It seems like every few weeks or days it prefers one over the other.

Re: Even Apple employees hate Siri and are skeptical of its future, new report says

#146
I'm a screenwriter and my focus is on character NO MATTER WHAT. We watch movies because we love the characters inside the plot, inside the universe, and how they relate to each other. CHARACTER is the CORE DRIVER of all stories, be it the story of Beowulf or Star Wars or Succession. Period.

Today, I am fortunate enough to be developing 'characters' and backstories for AI companies, and I think its working; the new prototypes I've been working on really feel more warm (or more logical, or more relatable, or more philosophical, depending on what we're trying to transmit).

I think a lot of AI companies are really missing this important point, and I think Apple, of all companies, should have got this!

Re: Even Apple employees hate Siri and are skeptical of its future, new report says

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"hey siri, start a 10 minute timer for the oven" "hey siri, set a 30 minute timer for the rice." it works just fine for me, use it all the time.

Doesn't work for me. I get this: >There's already a [number] minute timer. Replace? Confirm/Cancel Running iOS 16.1, so unless they added this feature in the last few months I'm not sure why we'd see different results. edit: Perhaps you're using HomePod? Apparently Siri on HomePod supports multiple timers, while Siri on iPhone does not. Goofy.

siri definitely has multiple timers. BUT you can only have two though and it only works on Apple Watch and HomePods.

I know, right?

Also a little known hack to set a timer you don’t have to say the whole thing just press the Siri button or say hey siri ‘n minutes’ and it will set a timer for n minutes.

Re: Even Apple employees hate Siri and are skeptical of its future, new report says

#148
post #131

I think I might be in the minority based on other comments here. I hate things like Siri and whatever Android phones have. It's incredibly rude every time I hear someone almost yelling into their phone in public. They get frustrated Siri doesn't work and loudly and slowly say whatever it is again like being mean to a dumb child. People speak out entire text messages and the replies. I'm not pointing out folks with di…

> I'm not pointing out folks with disabilities. I'm talking about perfectly healthy adults who seem to have no sense of awareness around them.

Careful. It's easy to overlook disabilities that may not be immediately externally visible.

I have a friend who's heavily dyslexic. You'd never know it if you ran into her on the street; she's quite successful in her career. Yet she uses voice dictation when sending text messages because it's an order of magnitude less time and cognitive effort for her to write something out that way.

I tend to think the world would be a better place if we were all just a little bit less judgemental of things we see others doing that we can't immediately explain.

Re: Even Apple employees hate Siri and are skeptical of its future, new report says

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey Siri, “add 2 minutes to the timer”. It can’t even do something so basic as that.

It does have that ability on the HomePod minis that I have around the house. If a timer is set on one of them and then I want to reset it or add minutes to it, I can do so (but only when that HomePod mini hears me).

It works on watch and HomePod only.

Re: Even Apple employees hate Siri and are skeptical of its future, new report says

#150
post #59

I use Siri fairly frequently for setting timers, controlling my smart home and the like, but for me where it falls down is really understanding natural language. Personally I found that google assistant was way way ahead of siri in this regard. I could ask it to do something and it would just understand what I want. One issue I frequently have with siri is that commands that work one day suddenly don't the next. If I…

I also use it in a limited way and it's fairly successful. Just homekit turn on turn off and set scenes.

However I have one frustrating bug with shortcuts that sends me over the moon. I have a little shortcut that just sends a simple text message when i say 'Hey siri, Sweetie' about 20% of the time siri comes back telling me about musical artist sweetie... it's braindead.

Post reply on HN