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The U.S. Military Relies on One Louisiana Factory. It Blew Up

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Re: The U.S. Military Relies on One Louisiana Factory. It Blew Up

#21

Post by throwaway1492 »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #7

I get that this sort of headline makes for a great circle jerk but let's be real here, the military isn't as stupid as HN likes to imply. Rife with perverse incentives that keep things from being done ideally? Yes, but not stupid. The military is also rife with ass-covering careerists so if some nobody on HN can think of a way they can do it better then someone in the system has almost certainly thought about it and…

> The military is also rife with ass-covering careerists

This is true, and I believe it's nigh impossible for a normal person to understand the level of politics and fuckery that goes on at all levels of the military; hence the down votes!

Re: The U.S. Military Relies on One Louisiana Factory. It Blew Up

#22

Post by 0zemp2c »

bell-cot wrote: post #3

Ah, the [cough] wisdom of [gag] outsourcing mission-critical military activities to private enterprise. If you look at history - the British Crown started making their own gunpowder at the Tower of London, in the middle of the 13th Century . The British Board of Ordnance was formally constituted in 1683 , by HRM King Charles the Second . And if you look at the more-recent era, when the US started shutting down most o…

https://www.jmc.army.mil/About.aspx?id=About

lists the DoD munitions sites

Re: The U.S. Military Relies on One Louisiana Factory. It Blew Up

#23

Post by nordsieck »

diegoholiveira wrote: post #12
bell-cot wrote: post #3

Ah, the [cough] wisdom of [gag] outsourcing mission-critical military activities to private enterprise. If you look at history - the British Crown started making their own gunpowder at the Tower of London, in the middle of the 13th Century . The British Board of Ordnance was formally constituted in 1683 , by HRM King Charles the Second . And if you look at the more-recent era, when the US started shutting down most o…

I’m not convinced that outsourcing it to private enterprise is bad. Outsourcing it overseas, that’s a really big issue.

> I’m not convinced that outsourcing it to private enterprise is bad.

Counterpoint:

In every war that involves a substantial conventional component, there has been a huge ammunition shortage. Even though people know this, the phenomenon still exists.

Private industry isn't going to maintain huge "burst" capacity. It's simply completely uneconomical.

It's possible that a sort of public-private partnership could exist where the government pays companies to maintain huge excess capacity, but I don't really see a substantial difference between that and the government just owning everything.

And it's important that this excess capacity gets used often, otherwise there's a big risk that it won't work when it's eventually called upon.

Which isn't to say that there's no place for private enterprise to supply ammunition to the government. Just that it probably shouldn't be the only source.

Re: The U.S. Military Relies on One Louisiana Factory. It Blew Up

#24

Post by bell-cot »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #7

I get that this sort of headline makes for a great circle jerk but let's be real here, the military isn't as stupid as HN likes to imply. Rife with perverse incentives that keep things from being done ideally? Yes, but not stupid. The military is also rife with ass-covering careerists so if some nobody on HN can think of a way they can do it better then someone in the system has almost certainly thought about it and…

Guess: Most folks on HN realize that "the military", in the sense of "the current general and admirals", have damn little influence over these outsourcing, single-sourcing, etc. decisions. That is mostly controlled by Congress, via the budget purse-strings. And Congress in term is mostly controlled by...

Re: The U.S. Military Relies on One Louisiana Factory. It Blew Up

#25

Post by brightball »

phpisthebest wrote: post #16

When it comes to defense spending this is abnormal Most of the time they want to put the supply chain across as many congressional districts as possible to make it politically hard to close any program as it would "cut jobs" in more districts much hard to cut spending if 10,000 jobs across 250 districts are impacted, then if 10,000 job across 5 districts are impacted

That has always been my understanding as well. The DoD would insist production be spread across multiple companies.

Additionally, why in the world is this even public knowledge?

Re: The U.S. Military Relies on One Louisiana Factory. It Blew Up

#26

Post by ahelwer »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #7

I get that this sort of headline makes for a great circle jerk but let's be real here, the military isn't as stupid as HN likes to imply. Rife with perverse incentives that keep things from being done ideally? Yes, but not stupid. The military is also rife with ass-covering careerists so if some nobody on HN can think of a way they can do it better then someone in the system has almost certainly thought about it and…

The purpose of the military is not to be an effective fighting force. That is, at most, a happy side effect. The purpose is to shovel as much public money as possible into the private companies comprising the military industrial complex. So your efficient-market-hypothesis-but-for-the-military idea is essentially just not even wrong.

Re: The U.S. Military Relies on One Louisiana Factory. It Blew Up

#27

Post by sologoub »

diegoholiveira wrote: post #12
bell-cot wrote: post #3

Ah, the [cough] wisdom of [gag] outsourcing mission-critical military activities to private enterprise. If you look at history - the British Crown started making their own gunpowder at the Tower of London, in the middle of the 13th Century . The British Board of Ordnance was formally constituted in 1683 , by HRM King Charles the Second . And if you look at the more-recent era, when the US started shutting down most o…

I’m not convinced that outsourcing it to private enterprise is bad. Outsourcing it overseas, that’s a really big issue.

Cost cutting combined with mismanagement at work here. As the saying goes - two is one, one is none…

It would make sense to pay for at least 3 or more of these to be open (privately or military operated) at any given time. Hopefully the military have a plan for a rapid buildup in case of an acute need.

Re: The U.S. Military Relies on One Louisiana Factory. It Blew Up

#28

Post by jerf »

bell-cot wrote: post #3

Ah, the [cough] wisdom of [gag] outsourcing mission-critical military activities to private enterprise. If you look at history - the British Crown started making their own gunpowder at the Tower of London, in the middle of the 13th Century . The British Board of Ordnance was formally constituted in 1683 , by HRM King Charles the Second . And if you look at the more-recent era, when the US started shutting down most o…

The problem here would not seem to be the outsourcing, but the single-sourcing. That's entirely on the purchaser; whether they single-source it from a single private contractor or a single-source internal government provider isn't going to change anything, the problem is you need multiple sources.

A large purchaser may well have to go out of their way to ensure that too. No good having three sources for your gunpowder if they're all pulling the raw materials from the same single point of failure.

Re: The U.S. Military Relies on One Louisiana Factory. It Blew Up

#29

Post by ericmay »

bell-cot wrote: post #3

Ah, the [cough] wisdom of [gag] outsourcing mission-critical military activities to private enterprise. If you look at history - the British Crown started making their own gunpowder at the Tower of London, in the middle of the 13th Century . The British Board of Ordnance was formally constituted in 1683 , by HRM King Charles the Second . And if you look at the more-recent era, when the US started shutting down most o…

> American families having their sons (at least the ones who wanted to becomes notable leaders themselves) serve in the military faded away. If you no longer have any skin in the game...

I think we can see this expressed in the decline of architecture and new, grand, important public works projects. Why build everlasting institutions and monuments to mankind's glory when you can buy a second yacht? Really disappointing.

Re: The U.S. Military Relies on One Louisiana Factory. It Blew Up

#30

Post by 0zemp2c »

nordsieck wrote: post #23
diegoholiveira wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not convinced that outsourcing it to private enterprise is bad. Outsourcing it overseas, that’s a really big issue.

> I’m not convinced that outsourcing it to private enterprise is bad. Counterpoint: In every war that involves a substantial conventional component, there has been a huge ammunition shortage. Even though people know this, the phenomenon still exists. Private industry isn't going to maintain huge "burst" capacity. It's simply completely uneconomical. It's possible that a sort of public-private partnership could exist…

> Private industry isn't going to maintain huge "burst" capacity. It's simply completely uneconomical.

not in the US, many ammo providers have substantially expanded production in response to civilian demand, and only recently have prices come down

so if you limit your worldview to 9mm and .556, the US is far more capable of producing in volume than anywhere, perhaps well beyond the rest-of-the-world

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