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The unintentional dystopian beauty of oil rigs

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Re: The unintentional dystopian beauty of oil rigs

#61

Post by giraffe_lady »

mecsred wrote: post #57
giraffe_lady wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol this is literally that "and yet you participate in society. curious!" joke comic?

You could read this as "you can't say anything bad about the industrial complex because you participate in it", though I think that is pretty obviously bad faith. A more charitable interpretation I would take is "whatever misgivings you have about large scale industrial practices, it's important to remember that they also massively benefit society and are in some cases necessary." Pointing out the flaws is great, vil…

I think at this stage large scale for profit petroleum extraction is literally villainous, so I'm ok villainizing. Whether it's productive to is a question of tactics that I wouldn't expect to find consensus on even among like-minded people.

There's potentially a nuanced and worthwhile conversation about what carefully ramping down fossil fuel use looks like, what responsibility we have to the people who haven't been able to take advantage of extraction yet, etc. But it's not like I'm interrupting that conversation to point this out here.

This is straightforwardly admiring the artifacts of a destructive practice and preemptively shaming & dismissing people who would find that distasteful.

Re: The unintentional dystopian beauty of oil rigs

#62

Post by MichaelZuo »

teddyh wrote: post #59
MichaelZuo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you asking me a question about this 'joke comic'? I haven't heard of it, so you'll have to explain.

Real, canonical, link: https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/

Huh according to popularity metrics that site doesn't even rank in the top 200000 globally, and only in the 70000s for just the U.S.

If this was a top 1000 site I might get why there's an expectation to know about their 'joke comics', but when it's so obscure, I doubt even 1% of HN readers would know anything about this site.

It seems odd giraffe_lady would phrase it in that way.

Re: The unintentional dystopian beauty of oil rigs

#63

Post by emsy »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #49
MichaelZuo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is ironic as the vast majority of the human population, including the very same people with such views, are only alive because of substantial amounts of machinery. Such as those used in the Haber-Bosch process.

lol this is literally that "and yet you participate in society. curious!" joke comic?

It really is not. There’s a difference in seeking improvement in a system in which you participate and the current mainstream nihilism that demonizes our past achievements and seeks its destruction.

Re: The unintentional dystopian beauty of oil rigs

#64

Post by CuriouslyC »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #48
formerly_proven wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Industry and in some sense "machinery" itself is largely seen as inherently negative, destructive, "unnatural", "against" by many today.

Which is ironic as the vast majority of the human population, including the very same people with such views, are only alive because of substantial amounts of machinery. Such as those used in the Haber-Bosch process.

If a slave owner has a forced breeding program, should the children of his slaves praise the institution of slavery for the gift of their lives?

Re: The unintentional dystopian beauty of oil rigs

#65

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #64
MichaelZuo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is ironic as the vast majority of the human population, including the very same people with such views, are only alive because of substantial amounts of machinery. Such as those used in the Haber-Bosch process.

If a slave owner has a forced breeding program, should the children of his slaves praise the institution of slavery for the gift of their lives?

That’s not a really good analogies. The real question is: are the people complaining about all industry ready to live in a world without industry? To which the answer is obviously no for most of them. It’s akin to asking: do you want 90% of the global population to die of starvation?

Re: The unintentional dystopian beauty of oil rigs

#66

Post by dmreedy »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #62
teddyh wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real, canonical, link: https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/

Huh according to popularity metrics that site doesn't even rank in the top 200000 globally, and only in the 70000s for just the U.S. If this was a top 1000 site I might get why there's an expectation to know about their 'joke comics', but when it's so obscure, I doubt even 1% of HN readers would know anything about this site. It seems odd giraffe_lady would phrase it in that way.

Like many pieces of modern internet culture, this image has been detached from its real source and context, and propagated memetically through the various social media platforms.

Re: The unintentional dystopian beauty of oil rigs

#68

Post by mecsred »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #61
mecsred wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could read this as "you can't say anything bad about the industrial complex because you participate in it", though I think that is pretty obviously bad faith. A more charitable interpretation I would take is "whatever misgivings you have about large scale industrial practices, it's important to remember that they also massively benefit society and are in some cases necessary." Pointing out the flaws is great, vil…

I think at this stage large scale for profit petroleum extraction is literally villainous, so I'm ok villainizing. Whether it's productive to is a question of tactics that I wouldn't expect to find consensus on even among like-minded people. There's potentially a nuanced and worthwhile conversation about what carefully ramping down fossil fuel use looks like, what responsibility we have to the people who haven't been…

A lathe can turn precise bores. Those can be used to make guns, which can be used to kill people. From my perspective, the analogy is you're anti-gun violence, but going after the people who admire the precision of the metalworking tools.

If you want to move away from fossil fuels, yes that's great. I'm with you. You're going to want the people with an appreciation for this kind of engineering on your side, as it will be necessary for transitioning any advanced economy.

If the problem is as bad as we all seem to agree it is, maybe we should cooperate to solve it instead of playing king of the hill for the moral high ground.

Re: The unintentional dystopian beauty of oil rigs

#69

Post by tekla »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #62
teddyh wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real, canonical, link: https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/

Huh according to popularity metrics that site doesn't even rank in the top 200000 globally, and only in the 70000s for just the U.S. If this was a top 1000 site I might get why there's an expectation to know about their 'joke comics', but when it's so obscure, I doubt even 1% of HN readers would know anything about this site. It seems odd giraffe_lady would phrase it in that way.

Its an extremely common meme.

Re: The unintentional dystopian beauty of oil rigs

#70

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #65
CuriouslyC wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a slave owner has a forced breeding program, should the children of his slaves praise the institution of slavery for the gift of their lives?

That’s not a really good analogies. The real question is: are the people complaining about all industry ready to live in a world without industry? To which the answer is obviously no for most of them. It’s akin to asking: do you want 90% of the global population to die of starvation?

Well, perhaps the problem isn't where you think it lies.

They may be willing to acknowledge your question and answer it with a whispered "yes", if you at least ask it in a way that cause them no excessive shame. Your denialism that the answer could be yes isn't quite the same thing as it being an "obvious no".

We all wander through a landscape of horrific truths that we blind ourselves to just to remain sane.

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