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On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

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Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#261
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sometime" consistent and "eventually" consistent, not the same things and still confusing. Maybe better: "letzendlichkonsistent" (Disclaimer: expat English native speaker, living in Austria, enjoying this thread immensely..)

My Austrian co-worker hates talking tech in German - it just doesn't roll of the tongue and he's more comfortable in English with that domain.

Same. I live in Vienna, and converse with my technical colleagues in English most of the time - although they do expect me to keep up with their crazy dialects over the coffee machine, an activity I find often quite fun, oida...

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#262
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can attest to this. I've lived in German-speaking countries for twenty years and English is still my daily language. Germans just love speaking English, especially since they speak English better than most English-native speakers can operate in German. I speak German when I'm out and about and nobody knows me, and I don't mind if the frustrated stranger laughs at my weird and obnoxious dialect. Among friends though…

> Among friends though, they don't have the patience and just plow through the conversation in their excellent English. That's kinda sad. I totally get the impulse to do so, and once I've started speaking English I might not even notice I'm doing it, but if I know someone is learning it is IMHO the decent thing to do to try let them practice if it doesn't matter to get to the point quickly.

Yes, I agree, it is frustrating, but on the other hand its also a matter of wanting to freely communicate and not wanting to have to keep correcting the other person. Most of the time, ze Germans think they are being kind and considerate by using their English. I see it from both sides, especially when the marbles start falling out of ones mouth .. and to be fair, once my German-speaking colleagues start with their Deunglish, I do switch to my Germlish in reflection.

That said, my crappy German is often a great source of mirth for my colleagues and friends, and this leads to me teaching my German friends some of the best, most finest and refined bollocksy English I can muster .. "weil, ohne Rache kann Mann nicht leben .."

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#263

Very nice overview of our Berlin patois. As an Italian living in Berlin, my favorite (which makes my Aussie partner roll her eyes) is saying something like “you are invited” when you pay for someone else’s coffee or meal. It’s a literal translation of “du bist eingeladen”. My partner taught me “I shout you”, but I also have the feeling that’s pretty Aussie or Brit. Any non-native friend understands “I invite you”, bu…

“My shout” is typically how I would use it - something like “should we split the bill, oder?” “Nah, my shout”

As an Aussie living in a German-speaking country, this just makes me hard cringe.

Aussie vernacular (or even, Brit) simply shouldn't be propagated beyond the pubs.

Lade deinen Freunden ein - nicht auf Sie Schreien, oida!

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that is specific to Berlin is that increasingly bars and cafes are staffed by foreigners. This is a quirk of the German employment system, a scarcity of staff, and the wide availability of expats in need of gigs. Instead of hiring permanent staff and paying them a salary, it's less risky to have temporary workers. However, you can't do that endlessly with the same people in the German system. You would have…

When I moved to Berlin 15 years ago, this was not the case. Many bars and cafes were staffed by German-speaking people in their 30s - underpaid artistic or intellectual types or professional partiers making an extra buck. This had a particular charm - they were often cranky and unconcerned, but they kept the same job for a long time and you could get to know them and feel like a "regular." This kept me returning to t…

I don't think it's much different anywhere else; certainly not in the UK or Ireland at least. My father works in the pub trade. Hospitality work used to just about be well paid enough that one could make good money out of it in while also having the flexibility to pursue other careers - hence why it attracted so many struggling musicians/actors/artist types. In the last decade, because the wages have dropped so low compared to living expenses, we've moved to a model where hospitality work is often done by people in their late teens to mid-twenties, who are living with their parents or in university digs so don't "need" the money to the same degree, just the flexibility. They're doing it for pocket money.

People later on on life with kids or other responsibilities simply can't make ends meet and independent cafe/bar/pub owners can't raise wages without going bust, as the running costs have sky-rocketed at a much higher rate than they can acceptably increases prices. People complain about the cost of a pint going up £1, but really the cost per keg is such that it should be £2 more; however, if they charged that price then customers go elsewhere to places they can afford. Wetherspoons or Greene King come to mind. These sort of commercial enterprises can afford to buy a pub outright - so no lease fees - and can reduce their bottom line through economies of scale to a point where independents can't compete. Of course, these corporations don't increase wages because God forbid their billionaire owners and shareholders don't get their cut of the pie.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#265
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you never consider Sweden or Spain? I see these two being popular with tech expats too.

Language barrier in both cases. Since moving to Berlin I've picked up tourist-grade Spanish — without looking at Google Translate, "Hola, una mesa para dos personas, por favor. Un hamburgar vegetario y un café. Graciás." — but not enough to function outside a holiday. If I even know a single word of Swedish that's not a loan-word, I'll be surprised.

If you can speak English and German you’re 80% of the way towards Swedish, honestly. ”Hej! finns det plats för två? En hamburgare och en kaffe, tack.”

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#266
> intensiv means « intense » not « intensive »

Huh, Leo.org doesn't seem to agree, I have seen it multiple times used like intensively.

https://dict.leo.org/german-english/intensiv

> a photo shoot is, rather alarmingly, a Shooting.

That's hilarious lol

> an online German 32-year-old and I will both, for better or worse, understand what is meant by « emu lesbian finally milkshake ducked »

I am international native and I'm not sure I want google that.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#267
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A permanent residency (PR) in Berlin does not require German language skills anymore. Maybe this is official or just established practice but regardless, there’a no reason not to have your PR if you qualify otherwise.

I was at the local immigration office only a few weeks ago and German language skills are still very much required for PR. One doesn't need it for the family reunion visa and work permit, but does for PR. There is talk of dropping this requirement, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Where are you from? Post brexit I was just handed perm residence with no language test and one short form…

I do speak German, and have a German native child though.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#268
post #145

Global English is both a blessing and a curse. Never before could so many people communicate across linguistic divides (even if imperfectly). But the price is that never before was the rich collective cultural heritage under such threat. The two facets are deeply related. Like any lingua franca before, global English was invented to facilitate trade (economic exchange). The fact that it is English and not Basque or S…

This is perhaps nitpicking but I wish non-native English speakers would not use the term “Anglo-Saxon” to describe anglophone or (better) English speaking countries. The term refers to the original north Germanic invaders of England and so has tribal (racial) connotations and is typically used in English to distinguish people on that basis. Many/most Americans (e.g. black or Native American) so not consider themselve…

This is from the English Wikipedia. [1] Nowhere in the article is there any hint that the term is perceived as problematic by native English speakers or that it has racial overtonens. If indeed there is a critical mass of people who feel offended by it, you know what you need to do :-)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_model

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#269
It's not just German. Language groups around the world are struggling to fit English vocabularly into their language. My favorite English borrowing into Polish is probably kolesław (pronounced something like COAL-eh-suave) for coleslaw, but there are so many that it's hard to choose. Poles in Chicago decline "Milwaukee" (the street) as if it were a Polish plural ("na Milwaukach"). I'm fairly OK in Polish but still find it impossible to pronounce "cheeseburger" the way they do in Poland.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that is specific to Berlin is that increasingly bars and cafes are staffed by foreigners. This is a quirk of the German employment system, a scarcity of staff, and the wide availability of expats in need of gigs. Instead of hiring permanent staff and paying them a salary, it's less risky to have temporary workers. However, you can't do that endlessly with the same people in the German system. You would have…

If you stay and open a restaurant in Berlin, presumably for the long term, wouldn't that make you an immigrant? There is a Syrian bakery in my street and people don't call him an expat.

Its both:

Leave Country A for Country B = expat

Move to Country B from Country A = immigrant

The words mean exactly the same. It's just which perspective you want to highlight. Whether you left a place or moved to a place.

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