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Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

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Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#641

Post by mulmen »

iakov wrote: post #455
bjarneh wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - the controls on my stove top How were these stove-top touch-buttons ever considered an upgrade to their predecessor? They always have no feedback, or that annoyingly high "beep" feedback. They are always slow to respond. They typically use only two or three buttons to control the actual temperature, forcing you to select location first, which is typically slow and terrible as well. Nobody in their right mind can…

The only saving grace of those is the ease of cleaning spills. Otherwise I completely agree with you and GP - how annoying it is that every physical button is now a clunky touch surface!

> The only saving grace of those is the ease of cleaning spills.

I have never in my life seen a stovetop knob that isn’t easily removable for cleaning. The shitty touch panel on my cooktop is recessed in a way that it is impossible to fully clean a liquid spill out of the seam without disassembling the appliance.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#642

Post by FollowingTheDao »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #189

I wouldn't mind touchscreens as long as these imbecile developers would strictly limit UI response time to under 16ms. In no world where you're barrelling 3,000+ lbs of mass at tens of miles an hour should you be distracted by some moronic app or subsystem failing to respond in time because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." Any software running as a part of a motor vehicle should be federally…

Amen. Pushing a mechanical button (with no CPU middle man) has zero latency.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#643

Post by kurisufag »

phpisthebest wrote: post #620
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The judgement should have been against tesla, not the customer. Wipers are essential and should not require fiddling

Sounds like the driver was attempting to adjust non-critical features of wipers not turning them off and on We should be very careful not to include the kitchen sink in with "essential" items. Turning the wipers off and on, is critical, adjusting delay timings is not

my 2003 Honda Accord allows you to change wiper interval the same way you enable/disable it -- moving the right-hand stick a notch.

setting it to a high speed will fuck up the wipers when there is little rain, a /low/ speed will be useless when there is appreciable rain, and when driving you often move from one to another.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#645

Post by wiseowise »

the_overseer wrote: post #412
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A talented software developer should know how to use the phrase ‘no’ Effectively.

And a talented manager should know when to say "Ok. I will find somebody else to do it then. For cheaper". You are easily replaceable.

> And a talented manager should know when to say "Ok. I will find somebody else to do it then. For cheaper". You are easily replaceable.

Our hiring rate disagrees.

That might be true for run-of-the-mill sweatshops, but not for any tier 2+ companies.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#646

Post by mulmen »

tomatocracy wrote: post #531
bjarneh wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - the controls on my stove top How were these stove-top touch-buttons ever considered an upgrade to their predecessor? They always have no feedback, or that annoyingly high "beep" feedback. They are always slow to respond. They typically use only two or three buttons to control the actual temperature, forcing you to select location first, which is typically slow and terrible as well. Nobody in their right mind can…

Speaking of stove tops - Neff's "TwistPadFire" somehow manages what I previously thought was impossible - it actually takes touch buttons and makes them even worse. The control is a a magnetic circular thing you stick on a specific area on the stove top. It comes off the stove top so first of all you have to manage not to lose it / you have to find it before you can use the stove. Then when you try to use it you have…

> The problem is that you don't realise any of this until it's too late and your only option is to rip the stove top out and replace it with another brand.

Honestly it is unreasonable to think something so ridiculously overcomplicated would ever work.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#647

Post by acapybara »

jjav wrote: post #371
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #189

I wouldn't mind touchscreens as long as these imbecile developers would strictly limit UI response time to under 16ms. In no world where you're barrelling 3,000+ lbs of mass at tens of miles an hour should you be distracted by some moronic app or subsystem failing to respond in time because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." Any software running as a part of a motor vehicle should be federally…

> So what? You've got physical buttons? Big whoop. That physical button that takes 500ms to respond is still as dangerous. No, that's wrong. Problem with touchscreens is that (1) you need to look at them and (2) there is no tactile feedback of whether you pressed it or not and (3) you need to hover your arm in a moving car at just the right spot. Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems. If the ac…

Our Subaru has a physical volume knob.

Its position is only a "gentle suggestion" to the software to move volume up or down.

At times, especially when starting the vehicle, there is major latency in the software processing the knob movement..

Also, if the knob is moved too fast, the sw gets the wrong reading.

This results in volume being way too high for serveral seconds as well as many other frustrating, dangerous situations.

UX in cars made in the 60s were better than this.

I don't think slapping on fake physical knobs onto laggy buggy software is a solution at all.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#648

Post by itsoktocry »

the_overseer wrote: post #312
prng2021 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great to get your perspective on this. Aside from the GPS/navigation features, aren't car infotainment systems extremely basic? We've been controlling heating, cooling, audio source, and audio volume since the dawn of time. How are technical requirements related to these basic functions changing such that their UIs haven't been absolutely perfected by now? Is the entire infotainment code being rewritten all the…

Yes. The infotainment code is rewritten every time. By different devs. Because that is how automotive industry works. This time BMW wants infotainment and a third party wins the contract (because it's the cheapest usually). For the next BMW car another company wins the contract. Everything is rebuilt from scratch. The components that make up the infotainment a lot of times are actually developed by different companie…

>Most of them are mechanical engineers not software people

Ah yes, the trillion dollar industry (that's been writing software in many forms for decades) just doesn't have people that understand software.

Meanwhile, you have the "software" people at, say, Tesla, who has the worst driving interface of all and the iPads were melting out of the dash in the summer time. But at least the latency was low!

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#649

Post by berkes »

sundvor wrote: post #316
morkalork wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did back up cameras save that many lives?

Start paying attention to driveway deaths involving little children, and you might wish a retrofit mandate of existing cars was already in place.

> driveway deaths involving little children,

This leaves me with so many questions:

* Why is this not an (actively discussed) issue in the EU?

* Does this issue exist in other countries than the US?

* If the problem is real, is a camera the only, or even best solution?

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#650

Post by pintxo »

tomatocracy wrote: post #531
bjarneh wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - the controls on my stove top How were these stove-top touch-buttons ever considered an upgrade to their predecessor? They always have no feedback, or that annoyingly high "beep" feedback. They are always slow to respond. They typically use only two or three buttons to control the actual temperature, forcing you to select location first, which is typically slow and terrible as well. Nobody in their right mind can…

Speaking of stove tops - Neff's "TwistPadFire" somehow manages what I previously thought was impossible - it actually takes touch buttons and makes them even worse. The control is a a magnetic circular thing you stick on a specific area on the stove top. It comes off the stove top so first of all you have to manage not to lose it / you have to find it before you can use the stove. Then when you try to use it you have…

I found it not that bad. Was considering to get a third one (after moving the 2nd time), but didn’t as the previous two tops failed right after being out of warranty.

Key for me was to learn that to activate the knob, you needed to make sure to touch both metallic rings on the knob at once.

I overall preferred the UX over a pure touch based interface. We stored the knob by attaching it to the hood (the knob contains a magnet), so it was always at the same location.

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