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On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

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Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#211

Post by pimeys »

hnbad wrote: post #147
worklaptopacct wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a new Berliner who immigrated here I can answer some of those: - Berlin has a reputation for its artsy party scene and lax enforcement of drug laws. People come here in their 20s to let themselves loose. - German universities are good quality and free for all (excluding the Semesterpauschale, but for my American or British friends this 300€ is basically nothing in comparison - especially when you count in the publ…

You're not kidding about lax enforcement of drug laws. In Kreuzberg I'd often see people obviously offering to sell drugs to passers-by as police cars would drive down the road practically next to them. On the other hand the police does occasionally decide to make a show out of its enforcement. I think it's more appropriate to call it "selective" than lax, at least by German standards.

If you're a POC in the Kreuzberg parks, you will get searched by the police eventually. As a white kid going to clubs, it is very rare if you behave.

Try to do the same in places like Munich. The police can stop your taxi, search your pockets and bag, and if finding some illegal substances you lose your driver's license and need to go to the court. This will (hopefully) change for weed this year...

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#212

Post by actionfromafar »

ghaff wrote: post #208
systemtest wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you stay and open a restaurant in Berlin, presumably for the long term, wouldn't that make you an immigrant? There is a Syrian bakery in my street and people don't call him an expat.

It probably depends on the specifics. In Asia, I've known a fair number of Europeans who have lived there for a significant period of time and I would still think of them as expats.

I thought the "joke" was that expats are white, immigrants are not?

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#213

Post by ElfinTrousers »

ben_w wrote: post #24
G3rn0ti wrote: post #9

As a native Urberliner I am both flattered and confused by the fact so many young Americans choose to live in my home town. I always wondered what makes it so attractive to you. I mean, winters are miserable, the city is ugly compared to many others in Germany, the people are rather not friendly to each other, the German language is difficult to learn, our history is troublesome, German immigration laws still difficu…

I'm British by birth, I chose Berlin after Brexit because: 1. Friends here 2. Alternative countries were Luxembourg/Switzerland (more expensive); Canada (worse weather); Ireland (fear I might get blamed personally for the stupid done by British politicians, and the UK Gov was being loudly stupid about Ireland at the time); USA (weird culture, guns); Australia/New Zealand (too far from the old country to visit regular…

> USA (weird culture, guns)

I was at a book reading in a cafe in Berlin once and there was some sort of loud noise outside, firecrackers I believe. Some people flinched, some didn't. The reader said something to the effect of "watch the Americans in the room, when they duck, you duck too".

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#214

Post by ElfinTrousers »

henrikschroder wrote: post #25
btilly wrote: post #21

Borrowed words and phrases can lead to weird things that we don't even notice. For example the author of the essay casually calls English the lingua franca without pausing to realize that he's using an Italian phrase for "French language", and means English by it! This borrowing, adapting and linguistic evolution has been going on for a very long time.

Well, English is the lingua franca du jour, after all!

Which I bet the French just _love_.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#215

Post by ricardobayes »

pimeys wrote: post #107
G3rn0ti wrote: post #9

As a native Urberliner I am both flattered and confused by the fact so many young Americans choose to live in my home town. I always wondered what makes it so attractive to you. I mean, winters are miserable, the city is ugly compared to many others in Germany, the people are rather not friendly to each other, the German language is difficult to learn, our history is troublesome, German immigration laws still difficu…

I moved eleven years ago because I loved the party scene. Took me less than a month to find a huge apartment for under seven hundred a month from a nice neighborhood. Now I cannot move out anymore without doubling or tripling my rent. Also chose to study Rust instead of German, and been having so much work afterwards that I still haven't started my German studies. My husband speaks good German so that helps. The weat…

Uh, yeah Berlin is definitely a mixed bag. To me it's like a bigger Glasgow - a local epicenter for everything but has really unkempt and outright scary parts. It's sort of cheap but not really. Public transport is great but in every one seems to be someone smelly or just too weird. Maybe some kind of re-urbanization programme would help the city, so they would rethink some areas.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#216

Post by ElfinTrousers »

feintruled wrote: post #131
jamiek88 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because the English are very industrious, not like the French who don’t even have a word for entrepreneur!

Reminds me of the gag, "English is the best language as it always has a mot juste for everything"

English has lots and lots and lots of vocabulary. Of course, a lot of that vocabulary still has tags on it saying "PROPERTY OF SPANISH" or "IF FOUND, RETURN TO FRANCE".

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#217

Post by ElfinTrousers »

derriz wrote: post #145
nologic01 wrote: post #92

Global English is both a blessing and a curse. Never before could so many people communicate across linguistic divides (even if imperfectly). But the price is that never before was the rich collective cultural heritage under such threat. The two facets are deeply related. Like any lingua franca before, global English was invented to facilitate trade (economic exchange). The fact that it is English and not Basque or S…

This is perhaps nitpicking but I wish non-native English speakers would not use the term “Anglo-Saxon” to describe anglophone or (better) English speaking countries. The term refers to the original north Germanic invaders of England and so has tribal (racial) connotations and is typically used in English to distinguish people on that basis. Many/most Americans (e.g. black or Native American) so not consider themselve…

As a born-and-raised American who speaks English for a first language and is of mixed Semitic and Celtic descent, I endorse this.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#218

Post by ricardobayes »

ben_w wrote: post #24
G3rn0ti wrote: post #9

As a native Urberliner I am both flattered and confused by the fact so many young Americans choose to live in my home town. I always wondered what makes it so attractive to you. I mean, winters are miserable, the city is ugly compared to many others in Germany, the people are rather not friendly to each other, the German language is difficult to learn, our history is troublesome, German immigration laws still difficu…

I'm British by birth, I chose Berlin after Brexit because: 1. Friends here 2. Alternative countries were Luxembourg/Switzerland (more expensive); Canada (worse weather); Ireland (fear I might get blamed personally for the stupid done by British politicians, and the UK Gov was being loudly stupid about Ireland at the time); USA (weird culture, guns); Australia/New Zealand (too far from the old country to visit regular…

Did you never consider Sweden or Spain? I see these two being popular with tech expats too.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#219

Post by bregma »

camillomiller wrote: post #194
vanderZwan wrote: post #69

> The other day my friend S., an American Berliner, said that he had noticed his English-language social circle starting to use the word « spontaneously » wrong. When Germans say they’ll organise a social event spontan, they mean they’ll work out the details at short notice. To socialise spontaneously, in English, means something rather different. But S. and I and our Neukölln friends have started using it in the sen…

For native speakers struggling with spontan, just translate it as “let’s play it by ear”

For native English speakers, the German "spontan" translates as "improvised" rather than "spontaneous".

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#220

Post by te_chris »

actionfromafar wrote: post #212
ghaff wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably depends on the specifics. In Asia, I've known a fair number of Europeans who have lived there for a significant period of time and I would still think of them as expats.

I thought the "joke" was that expats are white, immigrants are not?

Definitely true on the whole, but perhaps identity is not the most productive lens to look through.

As a white expat/immigrant to the UK, I think it's more about whether you've committed to never returning. It's a very different mindset I find, between those who've moved and are staying put, vs those with the idea of leaving in the back of their minds. The privilege of the expat is being able to hedge for a very long time.

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